guide to the 2392

[meerkat]

I'm sorry, meerkat, this is totally wrong and must be corrected for anyone else reading itLive Polarity of supply is tested and confirmed immediately after the dead tests, before the installation is energised.

The reason for this is that if the DNO fella had a bad day and got it wrong, you will know before you energise your installation.

Therefore it cannot be confirmed during Zs tests or Rcd tests or with a socket tester - as this will be too late as you're already energised.

The other 'live' test that has to be performed before energising the installation is Ze, to confirm the supply earth path.

Hope that clears things up

Yes thanks for the advice, I am just trying to give an idea of what to expect and what I have been taught in respect of the 2392 practical, I am sure there will be conflicting methods and teaching practices across the country, thanks once again (Meerkat)

 

[a1]

Meerkat,

To be honest, there shouldn't be anything or anyone conflicting the version that ADS has stated above. Because that is the correct way that it is done and should be done.

When you get some spare time (and it should be done as soon as, really), Please could you edit your post to add that info in?

Many Thanks,

Admin.

 

[a1]

PS. My Lecturer/Tutor on my 2392, when I did it (and he also does the 2391 too) is strict. If I his "Learners" (that what we are called now as opposed to "Students") didn't do it that way and in the order, then It was an instant FAIL. :|

 

[ianmacd]

I think you are all correct in different ways. Polarity should be checked when doing a Ze test (the first live test done on any installation) and it should also be confirmed for each circuit too.

 

[meerkat]

Meerkat, To be honest, there shouldn't be anything or anyone conflicting the version that ADS has stated above. Because that is the correct way that it is done and should be done.

When you get some spare time (and it should be done as soon as, really), Please could you edit your post to add that info in?

Many Thanks,

Admin.

Hi Admin, I totally agree with what ADS has said, I have already corrected the post, and am in the process of informing all viewers of the post before correction by PM.

 

[meerkat]

PS. My Lecturer/Tutor on my 2392, when I did it (and he also does the 2391 too) is strict. If I his "Learners" (that what we are called now as opposed to "Students") didn't do it that way and in the order, then It was an instant FAIL. :|

Hi Admin, appreciate the advice, because I did exactly as I was taught, I passed.

Live supply polarity can be confirmed during the Ze and PEFC test by the 2 green neon lights on the Robin EFLI tester, this is done before the system is energised for the PSCC test, this is the procedure adopted by my college.

I hope this explains things a little better,cheers (Meerkat)

 

[meerkat]

I'm sorry, meerkat, this is totally wrong and must be corrected for anyone else reading itLive Polarity of supply is tested and confirmed immediately after the dead tests, before the installation is energised.

The reason for this is that if the DNO fella had a bad day and got it wrong, you will know before you energise your installation.

Therefore it cannot be confirmed during Zs tests or Rcd tests or with a socket tester - as this will be too late as you're already energised.

The other 'live' test that has to be performed before energising the installation is Ze, to confirm the supply earth path.

Hope that clears things up

Hi ADS, I have been thinking about your reply to my post, and you are right in so far as, the system should be tested for live supply polarity before the system is energised.

The system does not become energised until the PSCC test, prior to this you do the Ze and the PEFC tests non energised, your readings are from the incoming side of the isolator, the EFLI test meter we use is the Robin, during these tests the Robin test meter confirms live supply polarity, with 2 x green lights for correct supply polarity and a red light for incorrect polarity. which also prevents you from taking any reading.

so the supply polarity is confirmed before energising the system. I think my tutor could have explained in more detail the importance of this.

I hope this explains things, please get back to me, with your thoughts, cheers (MEERKAT)

 

[meerkat]

Meerkat, To be honest, there shouldn't be anything or anyone conflicting the version that ADS has stated above. Because that is the correct way that it is done and should be done.

When you get some spare time (and it should be done as soon as, really), Please could you edit your post to add that info in?

Many Thanks,

Admin.

Post has been ammended, the important thing to remember is, as ADS said that the live supply polarity is confirmed before energising the system.

This can be done using a suitable voltage tester, this includes the Robin EFLI tester, which gives confirmation of live supply polarity by its two green indicator lights being lit during the Ze and PEFC test, which occur before the system is energised for the PSCC test.

I hope this explains things a little better, cheers (Meerkat)

 

[ADS]

Hi Meerkat,

My megger has something similar which indicates polarity but it does state, in the operating instructions, that it shouldn't be relied on to confirm it - it's just a quick guide, apparently.

Do the instructions with your Robin state that this is accurate and can be used to confirm. If so, then all well and good, I can't see a problem.

I'm guessing it will be ok for three phase polarity as well.

 

[meerkat]

Hi Meerkat,My megger has something similar which indicates polarity but it does state, in the operating instructions, that it shouldn't be relied on to confirm it - it's just a quick guide, apparently.

Do the instructions with your Robin state that this is accurate and can be used to confirm. If so, then all well and good, I can't see a problem.

I'm guessing it will be ok for three phase polarity as well.

Hi ADS, thanks for the reply, the Robin tester belongs to the college and is used for most testing courses, I really think we are starting to split hairs over this live supply issue.

As I said earlier the important thing is that live supply is confirmed before energising the system, to prevent injury or damage to equipment, cheers (Meerkat)

 

[Risteard]

To me confirmation of supply polarity is confirming that 400V are present between phases for a three phase system using an approved voltage indicator. For both three phase and single phase systems then it is confirmed that 230V exists between each phase and earth, and each phase and neutral, and that 0V exist between neutral and earth.

 

[madeinengland]

i have a query about the IR tests. wouldn't you test the strappers on the lighting circuit between P-N not P-E?

 

[sparkytim]

You could do but what is the likely hood of a P-N fault on strappers?

Not usual to run N along with strappers (Before any one jumps on that You can of course, but how are the strappers wired in THIS circuit you are testing)

More likely to be L-E fault if any

 

[madeinengland]

i have a powerpoint on I R testing and it shows testing the strappers with the test instrument on phase and nuetral plus when my tutor watches us going through the motions in class he only makes a point of it when testing between nuetral block and top of the lighting circuits' breaker.if there's a fault between L-E wouldn't this be picked up on the block test as the cpc should be continuous shouldn't it?

 

[ADS]

i have a powerpoint on I R testing and it shows testing the strappers with the test instrument on phase and nuetral plus when my tutor watches us going through the motions in class he only makes a point of it when testing between nuetral block and top of the lighting circuits' breaker.if there's a fault between L-E wouldn't this be picked up on the block test as the cpc should be continuous shouldn't it?

If your working in T&E, then there is only going to be 'Line' and CPCs in you switch and strapper cables, no neutral.

This is why you throw the switches on your IR L-E.... that's all that's likely to be there.

Even if you're looping at the switches (eg your first 2-way switch), the only neutrals are going to be in a seperate cable running to the lighting from your first 2-way.

A different kettle of fish if you're wiring in singles, of course, (eg conduit/trunking) coz there'd be a good likelyhood that the strappers and neutrals will be run together and therefore you should operate switches on L-N as well. N-E test doesn't require switching as it doesn't affect them.

To be honest, I'd operate them on both tests anyway, just to be on the safe side - unless you're 100% certain there aren't any neutrals in the vicinity, then you only need operate on L-E

 

[zeff737]

yeah that's cool and i appreciate the thread.we've only been told to do live polarity with voltage indicator.but i guess when you do Zs tests it also tells you on the meter. we use kewtech at my college which is robin so same as you.Hi guys, did mine last night and our 'Oh so very anal' tutor made a point of asking "so now that the board has been energised what is your first test going to be?" i said test polarity with a voltage indicator and was asked to show him, my mate in the bay next to me said Ze....he was told to go for a pee and "think" about it, when he came back he said he'd like to do the live polarity test first and was asked to carry on..........but our tutor is a dick so... ROTFWL