Hager Maintenance Free Junction Box - Trouble Terminating 4Mm T & E

[amateursparky]

thanks Mark. **** happens!! rushing for a deadline and am making more mistakes as I go along. I had another electrician have a look at my work. He said it aint bad for my first job.

Building control officier / electrician are coming to check my work on Tuesday morning. Apparently they had to squeeze us in so hopefully they'll be quick and sign it off.

Does anyone know would the council accept an EICR as proof the installation is electrically sound and give us a building regs compliance certificate? I can't get any other electrician to sign it off for me since they didn't do the work.

They're charging us £200 quid for the testing aspect of things. I'm reluctant to do this because I have already driven costs up because of my incompetence. I don't really want my sister  to incur any

more costs.

 

[Apache]

There's supposed to be 2 tiers to the system as I understand it. A full cost where they do all the testing (so any DIYer technically could do the work) or a few quicker tests where you have completed the testing for unregistered competent people - the EICR might count towards that.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

New work requires an EIC not a EICR...

If you have done and tested the work sufficient to complete an EICR...

then just write your figures on an EIC instead..

and hand that to the council bod with a copy of your qualifications see if they are happy with that ??

 

[steptoe]

New work requires an EIC not a EICR...

If you have done and tested the work sufficient to complete an EICR...

then just write your figures on an EIC instead..

and hand that to the council bod with a copy of your qualifications see if they are happy with that ??

now, thats an idea,

have you applied to any scams yet Amateur?

 

[ProDave]

...

I can't get any other electrician to sign it off for me since they didn't do the work.

They're charging us £200 quid for the testing aspect of things. 

I would use the three part EIC where YOU sign the design and construction section, and ANY other competent electrician can sign the Inspection and test section.

But if you are paying your local building control "£200 quid for the testing aspect of things" then what is your worry? if that's what you are paying them for, then they will do the testing.

Or am I missing something (not having to deal with this part pee stuff normally) :innocent

 

[amateursparky]

Am not worried about anything. Just that £200 is too much to pay. I have already wasted heck of alot of money on all sorts.

Anyway am a little confused. Will my electrician be willing to sign the third part eic? By signing off the testing, is he not signing the installation off?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Am not worried about anything. Just that £200 is too much to pay. I have already wasted heck of also of money on all sorts.

Anyway am a little confused. Will my electrician be willing to sign the third part eic? By signing off the testing, is he not signing the installation off?

NO..

Go and read the declarations on page 390 of BS7671 model forms..

Electrical Installation Certificate...

Design..

Construction..

&

Testing..

Are three distinctly different things....

It is mostly the various Domestic installer schemes who have done the variation on the model form with a single signatory.

as per the OSG example page 156 where the declaration is for Design/construction & testing,  as a lot of domestic work is done by sole traders..

But the standard model form as per BS7671 is a universal form that is also usable by larger contracts

e.g.

where a bloke in their office designs it..

Subcontractors may be install it..

then the testing guy(s) come round and test it afterwards..

All under the supervision of the QS of the company that is managing the work..

AND...

There is no valid reason why you cannot also use this form for a domestic job!

But individual parties sign for the works they have done...

It is the Part P self certification that needs to be done by the QS of the registered company...

Otherwise the council verify it for Part P compliance and charge you for it!

 

[amateursparky]

Otherwise the council verify it for Part P compliance and charge you for it!

So that is the what the £200  I speak of is for then right? Hmm so either way because am not part of any competant person scheme I will have to pay the council? What if I use this job to register with napit? I would like to be registered because then I can do what I want. After spending all this money on quals it's about time I start earning.

 

[steptoe]

yep, you could use that job for your Napit assessment , or any other scheme provider,

you will still need to test it and fill in an EIC for the assessor AFAIAA.

 

[NozSpark]

yep, you could use that job for your Napit assessment , or any other scheme provider,

you will still need to test it and fill in an EIC for the assessor AFAIAA.

But as you are not currently in a scheme it should ( ) have been notified to the LABC,,, not that anyone will check

 

[batty]

I would use the red 3 pole 41 amp ones linked by apache. The lever ones are not designed to take 4mm stranded so probably won't work. You need to ensure the conductors are dead tidy and have no kinks. Not sure why you need a junction box though surely you could have wired it so no junctions are needed.

 

[Steve3948]

I would use the red 3 pole 41 amp ones linked by apache. The lever ones are not designed to take 4mm stranded so probably won't work. You need to ensure the conductors are dead tidy and have no kinks. Not sure why you need a junction box though surely you could have wired it so no junctions are needed.

Batty it was a Hager J803 the OP was having trouble with, it states it will take up to 4.0mm² but he could not get them to hold.

 

[batty]

I have never used the Ashley ones so cannot comment. I was just stating the lever types by wago are no designed to take 4mm hard stranded cable they will take 4mm flex. but not stranded. I think the thing is with any connector ETC. you need to read the instructions. I made the mistake when first using wagos of not using the correct connector for what was needed. I had a box on my van for a couple of years before I started really using them. Maybe the OP had not got the connectors tidy as stated if they are crinkled they won't fit.

 

[Steve3948]

Anyone tried the new Wago Slim-line, I like them for use in fittings.

 

[Apache]

Anyone tried the new Wago Slim-line, I like them for use in fittings.

I have a load of 2 way ones from CPC that they discontinued. They were so cheap that I meant to order 20 and ordered 200 by accident. They are very slim and look like the slim-line Wagos.

If I was starting out as a sparkie a Wago selection box would be a priority purchase

https://www.wagobox.com/shop/kits

I made my own as when I started using them their was only the big briefcase boxes available.

I was sceptical but they sent me a free sample and I have been hooked since. So quick and I have a lot of faith in the product.

https://www.wagobox.com/shop/junction/free-sample.html

 

[Steve3948]

I thought I would give the slim-line a try, more expensive but in certain conditions a must.

 

[batty]

Yes the Ideal ones are certainly ideal on certain jobs Admin was a big fan of them. They also have a higher amperage rating.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I would use the red 3 pole 41 amp ones linked by apache. The lever ones are not designed to take 4mm stranded so probably won't work. You need to ensure the conductors are dead tidy and have no kinks. Not sure why you need a junction box though surely you could have wired it so no junctions are needed.

Forgot the Op was using 4.0mm stranded!!

As you say levers are good for 4.0mm flex

OR 2.5mm Solid or Stranded.

https://www.wagobox.com/shop/lever/3-pole-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block-20pcs.html

whereas the red pushfits will take 2.5mm - 6.0mm solid or stranded.

https://www.wagobox.com/shop/pushwire/3-pole-pushwire-terminal-block-10pcs.html

 

[Steve3948]

Yes the Ideal ones are certainly ideal on certain jobs Admin was a big fan of them. They also have a higher amperage rating.

Batty - Are these the Ideal ones now being sold by Wagobox.com website then ??

Edit - Website says manufactured by Wago, so they are not Ideal ones and much thinner.

 

[amateursparky]

Well today Steptoe had a look at the piece of ****. It basically a cheap piece of **** and is good for 2.5mm solid really. I can confirm this since that what I used on my sockets.

They use one blade for both holes which is why I couldn't get it to hold. NEVER BUY HAGER!! And to think I drove all the way to Bolton to get them.