Halogens keep turning off

[mitchilin]

Hi

I'm hoping there is somebody who can help me with what I think is a very interesting problem. I'll start off by saying I've done an apprenticeship in mechatronics and 1st year of E/E eng. at uni, therefore I know basics of circuit theory.

I no longer live with my parents but I'm staying here for four weeks and I need both a project and to "sort these damn lights out" that keep turning off when we are sat at the kitchen table eating and solving crosswords etc.

There are 10 halogen 12V 50W GU5.5(?) bulbs in the kitchen on two circuits. 6 of them cover the cooking area and work perfectly. The other 4 are a pain to say the least. When we turn them on they will stay on for a random period of time anywhere between 30 seconds to 5 minutes. After which they flicker slightly and then turn off. After which we will turn them back on again, and the process repeats. The more we turn them back on the longer they last until eventually they stay on permanently, but this can take a while and many repeated efforts! (And swearing).

There's an added twist to this as we have what seems like a PLC (Square D) in the garage controlling the house. Lights turn on automatically when you enter a room etc. etc. I mention this because the lights are dimmable, but it seems it done through the PLC. If you long press a rocker switch the lights dim. I know dimmable lights are a pain. They also each have their own transformers, but the transformers don't seem to be overheating because they are not near the bulbs and are not covered in insulation. It wouldn't explain why they eventually stay on after turning them on so many times.

So basically, does anyone know what is wrong here and how to fix them so they stay on? This has been happening for years and not only does it annoy me when I visit home but my parents live with it every day and it needs sorting out. Electricians cost too much and is not so high up the list right now. It would be nice to pay them back by fixing something. Any help is really, really appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[mitchilin]

I forgot to mention if you put them on at half brightness they seem to stay on first time.

 

[Murdoch]

I would suggest you change the switch to a standard on/off switch if that is possible.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

You could try changing the dimmer to a switch(or just linking it out, supply and switch live in same terminal) temporarily just to eliminate it from your enquiries. Power off at fusebox, everything off, just in case.

 

[mitchilin]

That's the thing though, the 'switches' just seem to be signal inputs to the PLC. There is one rocker switch to turn them on, and two rocker switches one for dim up one for dim down. I can't see changing the switches being possible unfortunately :/

 

[mitchilin]

Not rocker switch. Like a rocker switch but on  a spring. I've forgotten the name

 

[Blue Duck]

retractive 

 

[Murdoch]

That's the thing though, the 'switches' just seem to be signal inputs to the PLC. There is one rocker switch to turn them on, and two rocker switches one for dim up one for dim down. I can't see changing the switches being possible unfortunately :/

In which case you may need to find a competent spark who knows the set up....

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Make and model number of the control unit? Perhaps we can find the instructions for it.

 

[mitchilin]

@Murdoch Yeah but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna try myself first.

@Rob Square D IHC Controller Visual. I've done some PLC programming but I don't think it would be a programming issue? Wouldn't explain why they would stay on at only half brightness. The lights flicker before they go out therefore seems like another issue to me?

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I would suggest that:

Since the controller responds to the input (The switch)

The lamps work (since they come on and can be dimmed)

The lamps work with no problems at half brightness.

 The controller / lamp interface has an error, it is breaking down and needs to be changed.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Also wondering.............what happens if you swap the lamp outputs over, does the problem stay where it is or  does it go to the other lights? and does the output interface have a "spare channel"?

 

[mitchilin]

Good idea, but I have absolutely no idea which output is which. No labelling whatsoever on the wires.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

How about another picture with the phone the other way round?

 

[mitchilin]

I'm assuming you don't mean a selfie.

https://postimg.org/gallery/2xw4mxf42/2d3f2168/

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Interesting pictures, much better.

They tell me a  lot and they say nothing at the same time.

Do bear in mind all of this is speculation.

Looking at all the pictures I can see the following;

Main controller. (The brains,  and pc input)

Input output unit (Input from remote switches, out put to other devices)

Alarm back up unit (what alarm?)

24v output power supply (to power it all)

Modem (To allow remote over ride / programming)

relay output unit (On or off switching)

12v battery (Probably needs changing, life expectancy is 5 years Max)

Do you not see what I do not see?

What are the lights connected to? I don't see anything for that. It must be big ish, since it can dim.

The only possibility is the device marked relay output. I would pull a wire out of there and see does anything not work.

From what I can find out, a ship load of the stuff came over here from Denmark, and UK support for it was stopped back in 2010.

I can only wish you luck, and suggest your parents have something else fitted. There are devices out there that are compatible with the existing wiring.

 

[Andy™]

maybe the lights have a permanent supply and a on/off/dim signal to them from that control

either way, id also go with faulty controller

 

[mitchilin]

Ok, thanks for the info guys. The systems got to go anyway because if that controller completely fails then we have no lights.

Peace out.

 

[ProDave]

Two observations:

500W of lighting in a kitchen. You have not heard of energy efficciency yet have you?

When the lights flciker, do they do that iall together or just one or 2 of them?  If only one or 2 it could be the lamp holders. Low voltage lamp holders are often utter rubbish.
 

 

[mitchilin]

Damn right I've heard of lighting efficiency. And I'm more than happy to switch them to LEDs, I just need to figure out how to do it first. I know LEDs and dimmers don't mix, especially when when you pair that with an obsolete Danish controller.

They all go out at once.