Has this work been done correctly??

[Blue Fox]

Hello all,

The father in law lives in a council house. They have just had the gas fire condemned so the council has fitted a new combi boiler and all new central heating for him.

However when I popped round there today he showed me what the electrician had done. First I asked if he had a certificate which he didn't but though "oh its probably gone straight to the council".

I'd already primed him to ask the guy if he was part p registered and apparantly he said he wasn't, so I thought "I guess if its council it could easily be done through the building regs for free for the council".

Then I looked at what he had done, at the bottom of the boiler there are 5 or six copper pipes coming out of it in a row, to these he has fitted bonding straps, but instead of linking them with a bit of cable he has used the "tail" of the strap and clamped that into the next clamp. Is this ok?

I would never have thought of it and always use a bit of cable? Also the original boiler was in the chimney breast in the living room behind the condemned gas fire but has been moved upstairs to the airing cupboard where the cylinder once was, I don't know where he got the supply for the boiler from but guess it was the sockets ring on a spur as there is only a single 2.5 going to the controller and he has put a socket next to it as well at the father in laws request but I didn't see a FCU at all.

Also he has run a 10mm earth to one of the pipes going into the boiler and what I think is a 4mm to the rad in the bathroom - its certainly no bigger than 4mm.

Neither of these cables, could we find the other ends of! But when I asked where the main earth bonding was the father in law didn't really know what I was talking about so I got him to show me where the stop cock was and no sign of a main bonding.

I also asked where the rcd was as the house still has rewirable fuses which was met with confusion so after I explained what I meant he said oh no theres nothing like that!

So my points are:

1. Is using the tails of the earth straps ok? - I would say no.

2. Surely the lectrician should have fitted a main bonding to the water pipe where it enters the house as part of this job? - I would say yes.

3. Surely he should also have fitted an rcd to the circuit? - I would say yes

Going to go round there over weekend with tester and check a few things and depending on your opinions guys, and my test results, may take this further with council.

 

[Andy™]

there is no regulation to say the boiler must be cross bonded.

gas & water earthing should have been done

the likes of a council are normally part P reg'd and have a QS who signs off everything. each spark completes an EIC o MWC and gives it to QS. the cert is rarely given to tennent (usually its a photocopy to start with). the boiler may not require an RCD, so one doesnt need fitted. unless new cables is in a zone which needs RCD'd. often boilers are placed into old tank cupboard. and there is usually a 16A radial already there from old immersion

 

[Blue Fox]

Thanks for the reply andy but surely becaue the circuit has been worked on, and extended and has cables buried in wall an rcd should have been fitted? That was my take on the regs anyway. Understand it may not need cross bonding but it has been done with the tails of the earth clamps going into the next clamp and thats all, no clamp has an earth run to it so its purly cross bonding - If I was going to do it I'd do it properly.

 

[Andy™]

Thanks for the reply andy but surely becaue the circuit has been worked on, and extended and has cables buried in wall an rcd should have been fitted? That was my take on the regs anyway. Understand it may not need cross bonding but it has been done with the tails of the earth clamps going into the next clamp and thats all, no clamp has an earth run to it so its purly cross bonding - If I was going to do it I'd do it properly.

the new cable installed will need RCD'd if its chased in. if the new cable is surface, then it wont need RCD'd.

as for the clamps linked by strap, its fairly common on older work. rarely done now. it is a good connection, and can be harder to tamper with than a bit of 4mm between them. since its not even required, its not something that could get a code on a PIR

 

[jl-heating]

when we fit for the council.

never cross bond boilers even in specail locations.

always upgrade the gas main bond to 10mm as per gas regs.

check the water and add on comments.

usually use the immersion circuit and 3 amp fuse spur,

this work does not go through the building regs

fill out a mwc for an alteration or an eic for a new circuit.

certs go to landlord not tenant.

if we go into the ring we test the circuit we are altering and dont rcd it as its usally trunked surface, but most are already on rcd to be honest.

 

[Andy™]

when we fit for the council.never cross bond boilers even in specail locations.

always upgrade the gas main bond to 10mm as per gas regs.

check the water and add on comments.

usually use the immersion circuit and 3 amp fuse spur,

this work does not go through the building regs

fill out a mwc for an alteration or an eic for a new circuit.

certs go to landlord not tenant.

if we go into the ring we test the circuit we are altering and dont rcd it as its usally trunked surface, but most are already on rcd to be honest.

its a requirement of wiring regs that water is done along with gas. no point in only doing one. heating controls should also be notified.

 

[jl-heating]

i agree if 1 is ok usually they both are and yes all heating controls should be notified but rarely are.

the only people making money out of notifications are the dam schemes..

hands up people if u notify heating controls.

 

[The Godfather]

From the OP's comments, it does sound like a less than professional job.

The Godfather

 

[Andy™]

i agree if 1 is ok usually they both are and yes all heating controls should be notified but rarely are. the only people making money out of notifications are the dam schemes..

hands up people if u notify heating controls.

if one is OK, the other often isnt as i find!

expecially on older TT supplies. water pipe was only done because it was used as a rod!

and on others, only the gas is done because plumber has came along with his gas regs and only done half the wiring regs!

your right about the scams part. maybe i should start a part p reg'd co...

and for your last point, the less said the better... ; \

 

[Andy™]

From the OP's comments, it does sound like a less than professional job.The Godfather

i agree. how much time did the spark get to spend on there? these days, its mostly down the the gaffa wanting more and more work done per day, so they dont always have time to do it properly.

 

[jl-heating]

i agree andy in private anything could happen ..

but the majority of social housing is up to spec or was when installed.

we are in the middle of upgrading the main bonds to 10mm as gas servicing is bringing up a few NCS on the gas.

so as a matter of course we are doing the 16mm to the board and 10mm mains water /gas as req.

 

[Andy™]

but the majority of social housing is up to spec or was when installed.

maybe installed to spec.. but that was probably 14th! not much use these days!

 

[jl-heating]

i disagree its no more dangerous than the day it was fitted unless it has been altered.

 

[Andy™]

i disagree its no more dangerous than the day it was fitted unless it has been altered.

maybe by someone installing heating controls? agree'd, its not more dangerous than it was, but with lack of earthing it could be

 

[jl-heating]

most of the properties we work in there is an alteration involved so we upgrade the main earths to spec.

even go so far as to upgrade the board if req.

if i went to maintain/swop an immersion heater or pendant etc and it was like for like i would not upgrade the main earths but would carry out the approriate tests.

 

[Andy™]

most of the properties we work in there is an alteration involved so we upgrade the main earths to spec.even go so far as to upgrade the board if req.

if i went to maintain/swop an immersion heater or pendant etc and it was like for like i would not upgrade the main earths but would carry out the approriate tests.

breaker test? ; \

 

[The Godfather]

i agree. how much time did the spark get to spend on there? these days, its mostly down the the gaffa wanting more and more work done per day, so they dont always have time to do it properly.

The Quality and Standards, will be set by each of the councils across the UK (one hopes they are all the same), sadly the Don's view (& his boys), is this could vary according to the standards and inspection methods used by the respective council.

Lack of enforcement and or reliance only on issue of certification for compliance is not a good enough indication that the contractor has met his obligations.

The Don & His Boys

 

[Andy™]

management is always wanting more done in less time. they get more money that way. part of the reason i left

 

[jl-heating]

breaker test? ; \

stop it !!

i am not being drawn today

 

[Evans Electric]

I've been cross bonding pipes like that for years, shove the strap through the next clip, the NICEIC thought it was dreadful because we don't know that the size of the strap is equal to 4mm .

As for notifying heating controls.......well...........