HELP, How to prove power theft through my circuit from the flat above

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I have been watching this thread for some time and still not sure if its genuine or not
why would they wait until someone switched on a switch before turning on their item's
if they have connect to a lighting circuit under the floor, why would they not have their control above the floor boards, not below to save lifting the boards, and why do this in different rooms ,when they could just run leads to what ever they wanted to,
why are they waiting for the down stairs lights to come on, why would they have connected it like that anyway, when they would have connected into the loop live of the lights, if its the sockets or cooker/shower circuit they are live all the time and therefore they would not need to wait until some switched on a socket of other device, it just does not make sense to me, they could be stealing electric but why do in this way , when they bypassing the meter anyway ( as the OP says,)
No-one knows whether any thread is genuine. Tho' obviously the vast majority are :)

Why would the upstairs folk switch on an appliance as the OP does so? I'm guessing it would be to prevent the OP's meter from running when the OP has turned everything off; that would be a tad too obvious an indication of leccy theft. So they wait until the OP is already drawing power, and then just add to that load.

If Sun_23 is mistaken, or confused about what is(n't) going on, then the helpful replies will remain that - helpful, and will hopeful end up proving the situation one way or another. No skin of anyone's nose (tho' potentially a very puzzled and miffed upstairs neighbour).

Sun_23 - I have no idea if this device is any good - perhaps folk on here could advise? If it might do the trick, are you techie enough to set up and run the App? Ebay item 304811932877 It's "Watty Box 1000 Series Smart Power Consumption Meter "
 
No-one knows whether any thread is genuine. Tho' obviously the vast majority are :)

Why would the upstairs folk switch on an appliance as the OP does so? I'm guessing it would be to prevent the OP's meter from running when the OP has turned everything off; that would be a tad too obvious an indication of leccy theft. So they wait until the OP is already drawing power, and then just add to that load.

If Sun_23 is mistaken, or confused about what is(n't) going on, then the helpful replies will remain that - helpful, and will hopeful end up proving the situation one way or another. No skin of anyone's nose (tho' potentially a very puzzled and miffed upstairs neighbour).

Sun_23 - I have no idea if this device is any good - perhaps folk on here could advise? If it might do the trick, are you techie enough to set up and run the App? Ebay item 304811932877 It's "Watty Box 1000 Series Smart Power Consumption Meter "
this is an obvious concern for the tenant and the OP should get it looked into, a especially at the meter box/cupboard, but all that running around upstairs, just does not make any sense to me,
I take it that the meters are outside both the flat's door, in a hallway
 
this is an obvious concern for the tenant and the OP should get it looked into, a especially at the meter box/cupboard, but all that running around upstairs, just does not make any sense to me,
I take it that the meters are outside both the flat's door, in a hallway
I have worked in building design, refurbishment and interior design for many years. I know the sound of laminate floor tiles. I understand the ceiling and floor technology. I have designed several times electrical layouts for residential refurbishments. I know how to run and maintain my household. read my meters and and my bills. I know that access underneath the floor one or two times per day in a flat and a sound of an underfloor switch/breaker does not make any sense. I take full responsibility of my allegations and I ask for ways to prove them from technical aspect.
No-one knows whether any thread is genuine. Tho' obviously the vast majority are :)

Why would the upstairs folk switch on an appliance as the OP does so? I'm guessing it would be to prevent the OP's meter from running when the OP has turned everything off; that would be a tad too obvious an indication of leccy theft. So they wait until the OP is already drawing power, and then just add to that load.

If Sun_23 is mistaken, or confused about what is(n't) going on, then the helpful replies will remain that - helpful, and will hopeful end up proving the situation one way or another. No skin of anyone's nose (tho' potentially a very puzzled and miffed upstairs neighbour).

Sun_23 - I have no idea if this device is any good - perhaps folk on here could advise? If it might do the trick, are you techie enough to set up and run the App? Ebay item 304811932877 It's "Watty Box 1000 Series Smart Power Consumption Meter "
I am not here to be jagged or criticized of my allegations. I have no intentions to unfairly harm anyone and at this point not even is a public safety issue but my personal safety is at stake as I have let them know that I know.

I would appreciate anyone who could advice me about any equipment I could use in my property to prove this activity.
Someone suggested a clamp on meter. I am able to purchase items from Amazon so I would appreciate if anyone knows any good one. Nothing illegal.
I will make sure to let you know the result of this issue.
 
Hi Sun.

Well done for contacting your Housing Assoc. Was this done in writing? If not, I'd suggest doing so again, so you have a record of having informed them. I presume both you and the person above are tenants? If so, you'll undoubtedly want that person removed after this is sorted, and lack of action from the HA at this point can hopefully be used to oblige them to make this happen.

To begin with, tho', I'd suggest you actually want to nail this guy properly, and have them sorted out, convicted, and removed, and not just for them to be scared into stopping, getting away with it, and perhaps even restarting later on? Good. Then you need 'evidence' - see below - and not for anyone to act until you have this. So hold off any other action for the moment, until you have evidence.

Obviously, like other users of this forum, I do not know the 'facts' here, only what you are telling us. But, I think answers should be given on the basis that what we are being told is correct and 'true' to the best of an OP's knowledge, unless there is very good reason to suspect the opposite. It is ultimately self-regulating in any case, as any helpful information given will be useless to anyone who is wrong about the original issue! So, I'm assuming you are giving an accurate account. I'm also not going to go 'conspiracy theorist' and pondering whether the HA is also in on this - that is highly unlikely.

Where is your meter and CU located - is it inside your flat? If it's easily accessible, then I think there may be a simple way of determining whether your power is being pinched. You will need a clamp-on energy meter, which you should fit over the incoming cable, probably between the meter and your CU. No idea which models are available these days, but I used to have a 'Wattson' before I sold it for a £enner, so similar must surely be available. Clamp this on, and it'll provide an instant readout of your wattage use. The Wattson was wireless - as most are - so you can keep an eye on your flat's totsal consumption in real time at a glance. Turn everything off in your flat, and confirm it's reading '0'. Turn on items of known consumption - say a couple of light bulbs, then a 1-bar electric heater (400W or 1kW or whatever size it is), your TV, etc. What energy is actually being consumed by each? Write down your results - better still, also video record yourself on your phone doing this with a narration; "Everything is off in my flat. Meter is reading zero. Turning on a single 1kW electric heater. Meter instantly shows 1,000W being used. Heater off. TV on - that's showing 120W. Just heard a click from above, and meter has jumped to 2,500W..." that sort of thing.

That is 'evidence'. With that, you contact your energy provider and tell them, "My meter appears to be faulty as I can prove that it is reading far higher - many times more - than any item I am using. Possibly there is another cause..." Ultimately, if the neighbour is doing this, they will be caught. I'd suggest you do want to 'catch' them, and not for them to just stop or ease off for a while and play it canny, knowing they can restart at any time. So, get a meter, set it up, live in your flat, and keep using power as you would normally - so that they, too, go back to normal stealing, if that is what's happening - and build up your evidence log.

Eg, if you are watching TV in the evening, note down everything being used - lights, TV, fridge, etc - and the combined wattage of these (that should be fairly easy to do). Your meter should read very close to this total. If the meter jumps, start recording - "Watching TV, meter was reading 235W until a moment ago when I heard a click from above, and reading has jumped to..."
Thanks. I was told they have started (HA) a tenancy breach against them which means I will not be informed any further about their investigation.
 
Someone suggested a clamp on meter. I am able to purchase items from Amazon so I would appreciate if anyone knows any good one. Nothing illegal.
I will make sure to let you know the result of this issue.
There are no good ones. They all measure current and guess watts without measuring voltage or power factor. Not fit for purpose and should be removed from sale.

Your electricity meter measures watts though. Why don’t you use that?
 
There are no good ones. They all measure current and guess watts without measuring voltage or power factor. Not fit for purpose and should be removed from sale.

Your electricity meter measures watts though. Why don’t you use that?
Is there an easy way to do this, Boris? One that would give an idea in real time? Thanks.
 
I have worked in building design, refurbishment and interior design for many years. I know the sound of laminate floor tiles. I understand the ceiling and floor technology. I have designed several times electrical layouts for residential refurbishments. I know how to run and maintain my household. read my meters and and my bills. I know that access underneath the floor one or two times per day in a flat and a sound of an underfloor switch/breaker does not make any sense. I take full responsibility of my allegations and I ask for ways to prove them from technical aspect.

I am not here to be jagged or criticized of my allegations. I have no intentions to unfairly harm anyone and at this point not even is a public safety issue but my personal safety is at stake as I have let them know that I know.

I would appreciate anyone who could advice me about any equipment I could use in my property to prove this activity.
Someone suggested a clamp on meter. I am able to purchase items from Amazon so I would appreciate if anyone knows any good one. Nothing illegal.
I will make sure to let you know the result of this issue.
Hi Sun. I mentioned in that post an example, but I have no idea of its effectiveness. "Sun_23 - I have no idea if this device is any good - perhaps folk on here could advise? If it might do the trick, are you techie enough to set up and run the App? Ebay item 304811932877 It's "Watty Box 1000 Series Smart Power"Consumption Meter"

It's been pointed out that these devices - any domestic 'watt' meter - will not be very accurate, but I think it should be able to provide a pretty close indication, and especially any significant change in consumption.

Eg, if you were to turn on your TV, and the meter indicate a typical ~100W of consumption, it doesn't really matter if that reading is 10% 'out' or even fluctuates with normal voltage variations by 10% over the next while - these will all be minor and irrelevant, I think. What would - should - be very obvious indeed is if there was a sudden and significant change, especially if accompanied by an audible click from above.

I mentioned the Watty as it's only £20 (the guy offered a discount as I was 'watching' it!), but I have no idea what it's like to use. There are a number of very easy to use alternatives - I looked into the 'Emporia' for a village hall recently, as they wished to monitor a number of circuits - that might be a good option, as you'd have a few circuits individually covered. After it's done its job, you could sell it on easily if you wanted to.

https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/best-energy-monitor-to-reduce-bills.html
These should provide the evidence you need. The only alternative is to wait until the floorboards are ripped up, and hope they catch the person doing this before they get wind and remove the power taps. Or, an energy monitor will reassure you that there is no power theft going on.

If there has been theft, you presumably not only wish to have it stopped and the person prosecuted, but to reclaim your losses?
 
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Dear members,
I am posting this thread out of desperation. I need to prove my Here is the story...
I am pretty sure that my neighbor is tampering my electricity through my circuit. At first the meter room was locked since summer and it was opened again when a power outage happened at our building in December when I was on holiday. In January I noticed increased usage of electricity in my bill. I am on rent, have no debt and my usage was always the same. The first time I turned off everything and checked the meter it was still running. Usually when I unplug the fridge the red light on the meter stays on constantly but the light was still flashing.
Then I started switching sockets off, trying to find where is the leak. It was then I noticed the neighbor above moving along with me in the same rooms and switching the same sockets after me. This is still happening. Very soon I noticed that every time I switched off, a socket a noisy appliance from above stops including washing machine.
Every time I leave my electricity on for thirty minutes with just a lamp on, I am charged a unit. This can happen with any socket I use. When I switched off electricity from consumer box for three days they had people working on their floor, during the night, exactly in front of the socket locations to remove floor tiles, work inside the floor then check the socket switch. I have noticed the sound of two floor switches. Usually they access them when I turn off electricity completely for too long. I have assumed they control the different power supplies.
I reported it to the housing association and they said that is impossible as they must have had access to my flat at some point although they sent an electrician who checked the box my meter and some of the sockets and could not find anything. But the time the electrician was checking they there was no use from above.
It has been a month that I only sleep in the house with the electricity off. but again when I turn on they continue chasing me around checking which part of the house I am at and which socket I have on. Their moves are very quite now but I can still hear the switch sound. They have understood I know but they continue doing it.
The only positive thing is that I saw that they tamper their meter (credit meter) as well which is constantly off but when they tamper it, it is working for a second then a bam noise is heard inside the ceiling of the meter room. They repeat this for a few times until the get electricity I assume. I have reported the issue to Stay Energy Safe but they said the investigation might take too long. I understand it is difficult to believe with just some indications.

Please let me know how to prove what is happening above. Should I hire an electrician to have a full electrical check? I am not the owner. Would the police help? Any suggestions how to handle the situation because I cannot live at my flat right now and I am worried about my safety too. as they know I know

Apologies for the long message
Thank in advance
Over 40 yrs being a sparky I have seen all types of ways to avoid paying bills Back in the day a row of terraced houses never had fire walls in the loft so you could walk along the whole terrace and we rewired a property only to find the neighbour had come off the lighting circuit.I have seen various devices to stop meters spinning around but reference a flat IF your wires have been run in the ceiling and the neighbour could access them via lifting his floor then yes it's easy to steal your electric.Ref meter cupboard look at your meter / main fuse and verify it's just your sub main coming out of it also turn every socket / light off in your flat then look at your meter that will tell you.
 
I reassure you that this is really happening. Even today. But even worst they know I know and are very quiet but because they are disparate the minute I switch on they switch on and start the washing machine, when I hear it I switch off and everything stops...
As you suggested this is how I confirmed what was going on at the beginning. Unplugged everything, switch on and off the wall sockets and the breakers check the meter etc. It was obvious.
For my disappointment it will be difficult to expose this activity. After two electricians from HA no one takes responsibility to investigate through the ceiling, both said is possible. I now expect my utility company to visit but I am afraid they will only check the meter and main board again. I spoke with the police, but they will interfere only if there is proof.
I hope they will be caught for tampering their meter for a start It works even though the screen is blank. When they tamper somehow the screen shows now working-charging for a second, a loud noise is heard inside the wall at the utility room and their meter red light starts flashing but the screen is blank.

If I hired an electrician would he do the ceiling inspection? Check at least three junction boxes. Would he report any findings to the police?

Thanks
 
if you got your own electrician to look then yes they would do as requested and what they are being paid to do. they would not however report it to the police, that's nothin to do with us. its something you would need to document (with the assisstance of the electrician) and then it would be upto you to report it to police, landlord etc as you want
 
As you suggested this is how I confirmed what was going on at the beginning. Unplugged everything, switch on and off the wall sockets and the breakers check the meter etc. It was obvious.
switch on/off at the wall sockets will do nothing, you need to switch off the breakers - that will also tell you which circuit they have broken into, and means you can leave that circuit dead, so at least you can use other circuits in your flat.
 
That last suggestion from Binky was an excellent one. I personally would investigate what else they do and where they go (for example for work, etc) in order to find out what else could be done to make them want to leave. I would check also whether they are there legally - are they squatting, for example? Does the landlord know the flat is occupied? I would be very tempted to seek to access the ceiling cavity.
 
switch on/off at the wall sockets will do nothing, you need to switch off the breakers - that will also tell you which circuit they have broken into, and means you can leave that circuit dead, so at least you can use other circuits in your flat.
Hi. Of course I have tested the brakers too. Two circuits and the lights too. What do you think I am doing three months now? Thanks anyway
 
That last suggestion from Binky was an excellent one. I personally would investigate what else they do and where they go (for example for work, etc) in order to find out what else could be done to make them want to leave. I would check also whether they are there legally - are they squatting, for example? Does the landlord know the flat is occupied? I would be very tempted to seek to access the ceiling cavity.
I am looking out for an electrician but I am unable to investigate them myself that is too much for me. They look suspicious though. Landloard HA has avoided any responsibility and my complaints are now ignored. If I manage to prove this you will difinatelly see it on the news.
 
Sorry this is private info to post in public. Why does it matter to you?
I would only give information to an admin if it was necesary. Thanks
 
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