Help needed with a safe electrical isolation check please

[Joshua_S]

Hi all,
After completing my plumbing NVQ I am now completing my gas portfolio after just spending a week placement with British Gas. Part of the boiler service is to complete a Dynamic Assessment Checklist and so first perform a safe electrical isolation check( Have a further understanding of electrical isolation=>http://www.apogeeweb.net/article/70.html).

Now this involves 2 tasks:

1st using an electric pen voltage tester over the boiler,

2nd using a socket and see device.
Where I get confused is does the pen tester to check earth continuity and the socket and see device to check the resistance polarity or the way around?
I am a newbie in the trade and need some clarification also as to what both tests differs from each other?
I thank in advance anyone who will offer its support.
Really appreciated guys!
Thank you.

 

[ProDave]

First I don't believe ANY electrician would rely on a non contact "pen" type tester to prove dead.

Second, what relevance is a socket tester when the boiler is hard wired to a switched FCU?

I have had this argument before and it might be worth discussing but I actually had an "engineer" refuse to service the boiler because it was hard wired into an FCU in spite of me telling him how to turn it off at it's local switch AND at the consumer unit, and telling him how to remove the fuse from the FCU and offering to show him with my meter that it is dead.  He would only service the boiler when I replaced the FCU for a 13A socket, and put a plug on the flex so he could then unplug the boiler to service it.  Complete madness.

 

[Joshua_S]

I guess i mean by pen tester is what is commonly known as a neon tester. A device where i put it on an appliance and put a finger on the end. I become the earth and if it lights up the item i am touching is live. Make sure my test on a point that is not painted - eg screw through casing.

A socket tester, I guess i mean a voltage tester, which will also check continuity & polarity. Usually a device that has two probes, one connected to a deice that lights up with voltage and the other connected to this by a lead, you know.

The first device is a simple test to see if the appliance and casing are live. The second for testing individual components for voltage, continuity & polarity.

Well, that is what i think.  :innocent

 

[Sidney]

If you take a look at the best practice guide in the link below it will show you the recognised safe isolation process. Mainly the Annexes in the back.

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100117573/Best-Practice-Guide-2.pdf

Voltage pens should never bu used for safe isolation as they are not reliable enough to give an indication if a conductor is live or not.

 

[Evans Electric]

Just to second what the other guys have said .

Neon screwdrivers  and voltsticks    ( Non-contact tester)   have their uses like everything  BUT  ...for safe isolation you need a set of electrician's testers  .  The general idea is to  stick the tester across a known live supply ....to check the tester is functioning .........  then across the incoming supply in the boiler ...turn the spur OFF  , remove the fuse   ..or..pull the plug out if it has one  ....test again  , should be  Brown Bread .  

 

[Andy™]

you need a proper voltage tester for safe isolation. something like this https://www.edwardes.co.uk/en/products/fluke-t110-voltage-continuity-tester?utm_medium=google_shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkfDci8rV2QIVirXtCh3wwA4oEAYYAyABEgJIt_D_BwE

 

[Tony S]

Joshua;

Please heed the advice given. Non contact and neon voltage indicators are unreliable and therefore inherently dangerous.

Socket and see plug in units don’t give a value you could record in your reports making them worthless.

Safe isolation methods posted by fellow members has been shown has shown the only acceptable ways.

 

[kerching]

Whoever has said the "socket and see " and "voltstick or neon screwdriver' are suitable for,safe isolation is an idiot! And you can quote me on that

also,the link you provided appears to be for "opto-isolation' circuits which I reckon 0.001% of people on here would understand or come across

 

[Sharpend]

This is typical of British Gas and the poor advice they give out to their engineers. Not bad as they feel they can offer an Electrical service as well. 

Joshua, there is a distinct difference in proving safe isolation as opposed to just being satisfied that there is no stray voltage. 

At the very least I’d suggest you get yourself the appropriate test equipment. 

Id also advise that you print off the approved safe isolation from the link provided by our Sidney and take it into your bosses. Ask them to distribute to the engineers, that’s the gas ones as their electricians should already know better. 

Ask yourself this, if their method fails you and caused you to become injured who do you think they will blame? 

 

[Blue Duck]

you need a proper voltage tester for safe isolation. something like this https://www.edwardes.co.uk/en/products/fluke-t110-voltage-continuity-tester?utm_medium=google_shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkfDci8rV2QIVirXtCh3wwA4oEAYYAyABEgJIt_D_BwE

Found it cheaper...

https://isswww.co.uk/fluke-t110

As for safe isorlisations.

Prove dead stay alive or something to that effect.

And Don't let the corporate tw@'s dictate safety procedures.

 

[kerching]

I have the T 150..... because my life's worth it!

looking at the new non contact voltage measurement one....don't NEED one, just WANT one

 

[Andy™]

Found it cheaper...

https://isswww.co.uk/fluke-t110

As for safe isorlisations.

Prove dead stay alive or something to that effect.

And Don't let the corporate tw@'s dictate safety procedures.

probably should have looked there first, but that was one of the first to come up on google

I have the T 150..... because my life's worth it!

 ive got the older T140. about 10 years old and now on its 3rd flex....

 

[kerching]

Mine Is  still on its original,flex!....I do lose the plastic tips quite often though!!

 

[Andy™]

cant remember if mine ever had the plastic tips

 

[kerching]

They tend to,get lodged in the rubber protective tip cover...next to ,the larger round ended metal ones

 

[Joshua_S]

Thanks a million guys, you are all so sweet, i will and i want to read carefully all what you kindly suggested me, word by word, and check out all the links you kindly gave me, because i don't want to betray your kindness you know, at the same time i could also fortunately educate myself and learn something new and unknown. That is interesting. I would say i have fallen in love with this forum, because of you guys.
By the way, i think my life's worth a T110, too.
Have a nice day!

Joshua

 

[Joshua_S]

the link you provided appears to be for "opto-isolation' circuits which I reckon 0.001% of people on here would understand or come across

Yes kerching, this is an article i recently found, guessed you guys might find some interest in that you know.

Optical coupler (OC), also known as optical isolator or optocoupler, is a kind of electro-optical switching device that transmits electrical signals in light. It uses light as a medium to convert the incoming electrical signals into optical signals, which are coupled to the output end and then converted into electrical signals, therefore it is called optical couplers. As the optocoupler input and output isolation between each other,  and the transmission of electrical signals is unidirectional, so it has good electrical insulation and anti-interference ability. :Chairfall

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks a million guys, you are all so sweet, i will and i want to read carefully all what you kindly suggested me, word by word, and check out all the links you kindly gave me, because i don't want to betray your kindness you know, at the same time i could also fortunately educate myself and learn something new and unknown. That is interesting. I would say i have fallen in love with this forum, because of you guys.
By the way, i think my life's worth a T110, too.
Have a nice day!

Joshua

It can be helpful to approach any electrical task with the assumption that everything is dangerous and faulty until you have proved otherwise. An appliance wired with no earth and reverse polarity may have been 'working' before you arrived or opened the cover. So until you have proved polarity, earth continuity and safe isolation there can be potential danger lurking. Get it wrong and it could kill you in less than half a second. Don't assume anything and don't take anyone else's word that something is safe for you to put your screwdrivers and fingers into.

Doc H.  

 

[Joshua_S]

It can be helpful to approach any electrical task with the assumption that everything is dangerous and faulty until you have proved otherwise. An appliance wired with no earth and reverse polarity may have been 'working' before you arrived or opened the cover. So until you have proved polarity, earth continuity and safe isolation there can be potential danger lurking. Get it wrong and it could kill you in less than half a second. Don't assume anything and don't take anyone else's word that something is safe for you to put your screwdrivers and fingers into.

Doc H.  

Hi Doc hudson,

Thanks a lot for your advice, better to be safe than sorry, right?
I will bear it in mind, every single word.
Doing electrical task could always be a new thing, you don't expect everything, you just prove and assure them in stead, one by one. Like a child, needs more attention and care.

That is interesting. It is a job, also it is a hobby.

Best regards,

Joshua

 

[binky]

They tend to,get lodged in the rubber protective tip cover...next to ,the larger round ended metal ones

mine have ben stuck there for years - been meaning to dig then out!