House is falling down

[gordy71]

Im covering some work for a mate who is on holiday this week and its an 18th century mansion, listed building. The owners are doing the place up on a budget shall we say and my worm can opener is reaching its limit. I have been given a list of things to do and im trying to get through them the best i can whilst the plasterers, plumbers and decorators are all in at the same time... Today i was routing some cables and noticed some of the joists are fairly rotten and crumbling with wood worm. Im not happy to drill joists in this state of disrepair, some already have holes in so thats not so bad but i think my only option is to notch the joists and use mechanical protection? Is this the only way? There are existing cables notched in so i would need to put these in with mine. What would you guys suggest or just note as a deviation from 7671? Its one of those jobs that makes you feel physically sick when you think about it and as my mate is on holiday he cant really advise me on how he would like it done. Everyone on the job has severly underestimated the scale of the job and as its a make do with what is already there kind of setup everything is taking twice as long as it should. English Heritage are coming on Friday and i guess they will be looking at the electrics? Any advice, comforting comments or offers to take this hellish job off me are much obliged;\

 

[fletchflash]

Any advice, comforting comments or offers to take this hellish job off me are much obliged

Dont worry, be happy. It'll all be alright in the end. Your mate will be back soon then soon it will be your turn for holiday.

 

[M107]

Love a challenge..where is the job then Gordy?....(not volunteering by the way, well not unless your in my area anyway )

If heritage are coming I'd run it past them, with regard to notching joists. Me I'd go with bracing either side of the joists with new lengths of timber bolted/screwed through the old joist, then drill cable runs through new & old timber.

Failing that the customer may be interested in this kit if the joists are rotting away

Resin products shop, epoxy resins, epoxy adhesives, epoxy coatings

 

[gordy71]

Its in Buckingham, Im not even confident that the house is structurally sound, my mate said the ceiling below was bowing when i walked across the joists! Good idea though M107.

 

[Badger]

Its in Buckingham, Im not even confident that the house is structurally sound, my mate said the ceiling below was bowing when i walked across the joists! Good idea though M107.

acro's :^O :slap

 

[Doc Hudson]

If you put suitable mechanical protection for the cables I would not consider it a deviation, the regulations do not say cables must pass through joists AFAIK? Personally due to the nature of the property and your evaluation of the condition of the joists I would not drill or notch anything until someone else has agreed it is alright. You can't very easily go filling up your holes or notches afterward if they don't like it!

Doc H.

 

[Badger]

in fairness the heritage people are only worried about the extra damage to the property not wether a building is actually sound to be renevated from the start, they seem to think ohh cant change those rotten joists they are part of the original never mind the fact they are rotten and decaying and imho and im not a structural engineer btw the joists will eventually give way and collapse, then what hapens the building is demolished and a danger notice slapped on the front door because the structures unsafe, good move there english heritage, youve kept a building that is unsafe/unlivable but is useless, and now just a pile of old bricks good plan, honestly people like these idiots need to wake up and realise something needs changing and making structerly sound so if the joists need replacing they should be wether its new or older joists doesnt matter. thats my opnion any way.

 

[gordy71]

Doc, i meant not putting the cables in any protection, obviously a deviation, ( and BTW, i would never even consider this in my normal work) The dilemma is that in places i would have to run my cables with existing as i am only rewiring the lighting half the wiring will stay so conduit is not an option, but i cant think of anything that would be suitable without compromising the strength of the joists anymore. Badger i totally agree!

 

[M107]

The heritage bods are a pain the the backside if you are on a budget, I helped a mate of mine (he's a retired chippy but is on the heritage books so gets the odd job thrown his way) do some sash windows & flooring in a listed farm house renovation. They can stipulate the type of wood (materials) to be used, even the bits your never going to see (not untill the place is renovated in 200 years time anyway), as my mate said "it's all about compromise with heritage".

 

[NozSpark]

Cadw (Welsh version of English heritage) are a PITA also.

I had a cient that was renovating a listed property,, they didn't really have a budget they just wanted to do right by te building (they actually own a lot of listed properties,,,, and half of the North Wales coast!)

What they wanted to do was install an insulated suspended (floating) floor and insulate the walls with celotex (or similar),,,,,, the answer was a resounding NO! Just stick in bigger radiators!!!!!!!!

 

[steptoe]

I could be very very wrong here,

but dont heritage insist on specific measures and things be done?

ie, cable types and routes etc?

 

[batty]

I am doing a barn conversion at present it is not listed or anything but none of the original oak beams are allowed to be drilled. I have had to use a bit of extra cable to get over this but have managed to get round it. With a lot of old properties they may only be 3 or 4 inch joists so really not a good idea to drill through them.

 

[Badger]

3 or 4 inch joists really should have aditional strebgth added then if going to be load bearing.

 

[NozSpark]

I was brought up in a house that had oak beams you couldn't even stick a pin into,, a right PITA at Christmas!!

The house was built in the 1500's,, luckily it wasn't listed

 

[gordy71]

A good suggestion i heard today was using conduit end box lids to protect the cables if the joists are notched.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:08 ----------

I was brought up in a house that had oak beams you couldn't even stick a pin into,, a right PITA at Christmas!!The house was built in the 1500's,, luckily it wasn't listed

I bet the sparky flew through the joists when he rewired it!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:09 ----------

I could be very very wrong here,but dont heritage insist on specific measures and things be done?

ie, cable types and routes etc?

I thought the same mate, i once ran an earth cable 2 foot on the outside of a listed building and got called back to bury it. And on another one it was stipulated that all cabling be surface mounted in trunking so to not damage the fabric of the building???? Yep its still solid but looks ****. Think much of the time its a case of someone making their mark compared to following guidlines. As i said im only helping out so am just doing as i am told, monkey see cable, monkey pull cable...

 

[revjames]

The joists need to be sprayed with coca cola. It doesnt kill the woodworm but....

It rots their teeth :coat