How to price jobs properly

[yeehaa_electrical]

Hi all,

This thread went off on a tangent after my initial post so I have decided to go back and reword it so when people come across it in future it may be of benifit to them

I recently went sole trader working on domestic jobs rewires, new installations anything and everything really.

Just wondering if anyone would like to share a few tips on the techniques they use when working out quotes on domestic jobs

* working out lenghts of of cable required

* methods of calculating labor

* etc etc.

I tend to use the technique

Number of points multiplied by the estimated time to do each point, multiplied by hourly rate, plus overheads and VAT, with a bit on top to cover waste &

changes etc.

If anyone has ideas on how to improve on this please share Im always open to advice

Thanks

Is there guides or software out there to help me out, surely electrical engineers etc use them to save time on big jobs??

Any and all help is welcome,

Thanks.

 

[Theorysparky]

Do you have a spec for the job ???????

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi all, I am still relatively new to the forum so please be gentle.

1/ Hello :coffee

2/ When you say please be gentle do you mean..

Please make up some fairy tale answers to make me feel nice?

Or are you actually trying to sort out a serious business problem..

That could make or break a potential job from profit to loss???

3/ This is the real world, I apologies if you do not like what I say but

 

[Theorysparky]

That was it was it

what is a definition of a house then

1 bed,kitchen/diner,toilet ?????

not much then for a big house !!!!!

I think the op was wondering how much cable he wass likely to use for that size of area

which of course doesnt work like that

for the spec i gave i suppose........ ut the kettle on

 

[ProDave]

First off, assuming it's a new build, you are NOT supposed to pay VAT.

If, like me, you are a sole trader who is not VAT registered, that puts you at a disadvantage on the materials, as you can't avoid paying the VAT on them, and you have no means to claim the VAT back.

Simple solution. Give the shopping list to the owner and let the owner buy the materials. At the end of the build they can then submit a VAT claim for all the materials they have put into the house. That also solves your problem of estimating the amount of cable needed. Make a reasonable guess, and when you run out, ask them to buy more.

That then just leaves you charging labour on the job. You are not VAT registered so won't charge VAT on your labour. Perfect.

As to estimating, I price a new build on 1 hour per point, at whatever hourly rate you charge. I only ever give estimates, but i'm not usually far out, in fact if it's an easy new build, it often comes in less than an hour per point.

Doing it on an estimate, and based on the number of points, gives you the flexibility WHEN the customer changes their mind and asks for extra lights and sockets. Trust me, they WILL change the requirements at least once.

P.S do you REALLY mean 2500 square metres? That's MASSIVE I think you will find it's 2500 square feet, even that is a big house. At that size you will be running submains to distribution boards at various locations, otherwise you will have serious volt drop issues. You might even find a 3 phase supply is needed. Make sure you do the design correctly right at the start.

EDIT

I've just noticed you are in the Republic of Ireland. So everything I said about VAT may be completely different where you are, so I hope I haven't confused you. You will also have your own wiring regulations over there. I don't know how they differ from ours, so we may not be able to advise you about those on this forum.

 

[yeehaa_electrical]

Seems like Trailer boy got out of the bed on the wrong side this morning, I thought the idea of the forum was to share ideas and knowledge not jump down peoples throats. If you wanted extra details all you need to do is ask.

For a start I know alot more than how to join cables with a trade cert, a degree in electrical technology, IT cert and 8years experience.

I wasnt asking for you to calculate the amount of cable or price the job for me thats why I didint include the spec, I was merely asking for advice and tips on how others approach it to improve the technique I am already using.

And again did I ask you about Volt drops, CSA or anything like that?? I am quite competent at working them out for myself thank you

Did I ask about business plans??

Im well aware there isnt magic software out there but I was thinking something along the lines of Cable Calculation Software, Electrical Installation, Circuit Design Software, UK may be helpful when I input more than just the the size of the house.

 

[Theorysparky]

Points to consider....

consumer unit location ???? if its in one corner of the property lots more cable

radials or rings ???

downlights ??? etc

as been said mate estimate not a quote

last new build i did 2 bed detached 300m 2.5 t+e 250m 1.5 t+e 20m 6mm

you need a spec from the customer sockets lights etc

 

[yeehaa_electrical]

Thanks ProDave, ill take all that on board.

Thats the way I would normally approach it base my price on the number of points, estimated time taken on each x hourly rate plus over heads and VAT.

To get the work prices on jobs over here have to be very tight these days thats why Im trying to do my best to get close to the right figure on the gear first time.

I think a few people have picked up wrongly what I was intending to ask on this thread. Was only looking for a few tips on how others approach it not do it for me. Im always willing to learn.

Again thanks for the info much appreciated

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was made at 17:36 ----------

Thanks TheorySparky,

I chose a central location for consumer unit to minimise lenght of runs volt drop etc, same with comm cables and tv.

Radials circuits only for sockets

A heap of gu10 led spots to go in and talked costumer into getting 5Amp sockets in main bedrooms and communal areas for decrotaive lamps on dimmers,

they look well when finished and more economical than a load of spots.

The customer doesnt really know what they want, Im being given a plan and basically designing it all myself,

Might use Dialux for the lighting design its great for getting the lux levels spot on and printing it off the lighting plan using CAD gives a nice proffessional finish. Software: DIAL - light. building. software.

Thanks again for your helpful reply much appreciated.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi all, I am still relatively new to the forum so please be gentle.I recently went sole trader working on domestic jobs rewires, new installations anything and everything really.

Ive been offered a big enough job wiring a 2500m2 house, the place is massive and Im having trouble estimating the amount of cable il need and giving a decent price where I dont screw myself over (have a tendency to under price). I am ok at working out how many lenghts of wavin, boxs, clips etc. its just working out the cable I have problems with.

Has anyone got any tips or ideas on pricing jobs?

Is there guides or software out there to help me out, surely electrical engineers etc use them to save time on big jobs??

Any and all help is welcome,

Thanks.

Seems like you got out of the bed on the wrong side this morning, I thought the idea of the forum was to share ideas and knowledge not jump down peoples throats. If you wanted extra details all you need to do is ask.Look again at my post..

I think you will find I did???

I've pasted it below again for you..

For a start I know alot more than how to join cables with a trade cert, a degree in electrical technology, IT cert and 8years experience.

I wasnt asking for you to calculate the amount of cable or price the job for me thats why I didint include the spec, I was merely asking for advice and tips on how others approach it to improve the technique I am already using.

And again did I ask you about Volt drops, CSA or anything like that?? I am quite competent at working them out for myself thank you

Did I ask about business plans??

Do these not come into your considerations of how much and what size cables you require??

Im well aware there isnt magic software out there but I was thinking something along the lines of Cable Calculation Software, Electrical Installation, Circuit Design Software, UK may be helpful when I input more than just the the size of the house.

You appear to have answered your own question here????

Enjoy living on your high-horse with your guinea pig you condescending muppet.

(my comments red)

Thank you for your considerations!

When someone says "They have a tendancy to underprice" one assumes they have a poor understanding of costing jobs and running a business...

If any average person surfs a selection of Q&A forums..

one will regularly see people who are completely out of their depth asking basic questions they should be able to answer if they are at a level they claim to be?

So answers given may have to recap over basics rather than assuming the OP understands something that should be standard practice if they are working as a sole trader!?

:C

I am still entitled to my opinion that anyone starting a business without the understanding of how to cost their trade is a bit daft..

BUT..

that in no-way constitutes name calling or a personal insult to any member posting on this forum

But he ho!!

if you want to call names and ignore the advice I DID give in my post ...

e.g.What circuits do they need..??

1 x cooker & 2 x showers makes a big difference to fully gas cooker and mixer showers!

The only way I can price a job is to have an agreed specification of quantities & types of accessories to go in each room

 

[M107]

Well all I do is walk round the property (if already built) with customer & a copy of the drawings, mark in chalk on the wall/ceilings where they want accessories & using a fine tip pen do the same on plans . If I'm designing off plans then sit down with customer & mark plans as to what accessories & locations they require.

At home I then scan/print a couple off copies of the plan & get out the scaled ruler out, using differing coloured pens I design/route the circuits......tot up the cable lengths add a % for waste, get price for the cable required add 20% job done.................well nearly done.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Well all I do is walk round the property (if already built) with customer & a copy of the drawings, mark in chalk on the wall/ceilings where they want accessories & using a fine tip pen do the same on plans . If I'm designing off plans then sit down with customer & mark plans as to what accessories & locations they require.At home I then..

(put the kettle on/get a beer/pour the wine) THEN....

scan/print a couple off copies of the plan & get out the scaled ruler out, using differing coloured pens I design/route the circuits......

(put the kettle on again/get another beer/pour another wine) THEN....

tot up the cable lengths add a % for waste, get price for the cable required add 20% job done.................well nearly done.

Cant you tell its a new year..

M107 hasn't woke/sobered up yet...

I have corrected your post in Red wine m8!

oopps Red Wine!!!???? :Y

Must be getting transmissions from Canoeykid coming down the forum...

Is he using a faster processor now able to control more of our posts????

:_|

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:32 ----------

1/ Hello :coffee

Just realised..

I even said hello and left a cup of coffee?

Can I have the mug back when you have finished to stick in the dishwasher later please?

:Blushing ray

Admin don't half get angry if we leave dirty cups mugs and beer glasses hanging around in all the threads!

]

 

[M107]

Alas I'm now on call so vino & beer are out for the next 7 days......................sooooooooooooooooo I'm keeping your:coffee & putting the ut the kettle on on again :_|

 

[the doctor]

Dunno if this helps the original poster,but I always price by point..... it used to be

 

[steptoe]

Might add I was talking to a friend today who is scratching for work. An outfit he is working for pay on the point system-

 

[Zeespark]

Where has peoples integrity gone nowadays?

AndyGuinness

 

[yeehaa_electrical]

post deleted

 

[steptoe]

yeehaa,

Im having real problems with the size of this 'house',

Liz lives in a smaller 'house' !!!

you sure you got your measurements right?

 

[Manator]

Regardless of any size, other than a standard domestic which is very easy to estimate, any project of this size needs carefull consideration otherwise your going to be out of pocket before you start. Tongue in cheek lesson for you, you have the dimentions and have to quote, take some time to design, calculate volt drop,and come up with permissable cable lengths, add them together and thats how much cable you will need. One precious titbit of information for you, add at least 1m of cable per point, for obvious changes and/or problems on second fix.

I can tell a client, once I have received the drawings exactly to the Metre how much cable will be installed, this is because I spend time designing the actual requirements, maximum demand, and any future requirements. I am really offended that you think that one of our esteemed members, who I may say has proved himself on many occasions of providing top quality advise, acted in any way to offend you. The truth is, given the question it appears to be posted by some upstart who has very little knowledge, my reason for thinking this is, if your in any business you have to know exactly, down to the last penny how much your paying for materials otherwise you get stung.

If your doing a big job, and you clearly have the measurements, then design your circuits, and calculate the cable required, believe it or not its a relative simple process.

 

[yeehaa_electrical]

yeehaa,Im having real problems with the size of this 'house',

Liz lives in a smaller 'house' !!!

you sure you got your measurements right?

Its a tad smaller than the palace,

wikipedia reckons it she has 77,000square meters of floor space... but how reliable is that ha.

Its a big rural house, client owns race horses etc and isnt short of a few pennys.

 

[steptoe]

you in the curraghs working?