I am confused as to what some people think this means

[poni]

yea! mine too it  was 4 years(fixed) with day release to the local Tec, there was only two taken on the year I started, and one guy that had started the year before, its was and still is a household name .   

I was indentured to the EETPU (at the time) I had to sign I would complete it and my dad (as head of the house) had to sign, to say he would put me up for the time, there were seals and every thing on it

we had 150 sparks at the time I started, 4 years later there was 10 , B ***y Pen pushers ! 

Ps we worked 37.5hrs a week, then this was cut to 35hrs  by the end (with no loss of pay)

the pay was a % of the tradesman's pay ,getting closer to the full rate as the years went on  

 

[Evans Electric]

Its not complicated , it just means you have served a recognisable apprenticship , which come in many forms .  

They hardly exist today it seems ...you go from school to " Further education"  taking the various electrical disiplines , fitting PVC conduit in workshop booth  but no hands on work .    After that I'm not sure what happens to you . 

As I said in an earlier post , we have a lad from local college doing practical experience with us , he tells me hes the only one who has ever worked out of a class of 30 .

I started at 15 with GKN on electrical maintenance , moved after 2 yrs to a big local contractor as a JIB apprentice so 6 yrs in all .

 

[ProDave]

Absolutely not passing judgement on you nor anyone else. As I said in my earlier post. I consider time served to be for those that trained prior to formal qualifications. 

So those that did their formal qualifications at the same time as their as their practical training did not do an apprenticeship then?

 

[Essex1]

So those that did their formal qualifications at the same time as their as their practical training did not do an apprenticeship then?

Eh?  Not quite sure how you got to that. 

I think time served is different than an apprenticeship. Read my earliier posts. 

 

[Manator]

Thats not what the Oxford dictionary says.

 

[Essex1]

Thats not what the Oxford dictionary says.

You are right. As I said in my first post. TEF give you the option of 'time-served' or 'Apprenticeship' so I consider them to be different. 

There is no right or wrong answer to be honest. 

 

[ProDave]

Well if you have a nice posh bit of paper, written on pretend parchment paper, rolled up and wrapped in a ribbon, and when you unroll it is says "Indentures of Apprenticeship" then I think you can claim to be a time served apprentice.

I always thought "time served" meant you served your time as an apprentice So what definition of time served is there that does not include an apprenticeship?

I don't know how it was with others, but the apprentice manager took on some of the duties of your guardian, for instance you could not get married as an apprentice without his permission. Lots of things like that written into your contract, including of course you must attend all the college courses they send you on.

Ours was a fixed 4 year term, and I came out with an HNC and then did 2 more years at college to get an HND. I had had enough of college by then.

 

[Essex1]

Current apprenticeships are not fixed in length. You stay within the system until you qualify. 

So within this system of a fixed term. What were the C&G certificate numbers that you earned?  Mine were 2360 parts 1 & 2 & NVQ level 2 & 3. The 2360 was to prove your technical knowledge and the NVQ was to prove your on the job training. 

 

[apprentice87]

Look, my granny was a school teacher all her life

Anyway, my granny used to talk about boys in the 1950's doing apprenticeships. Even then it involved BOTH "serving your time" with an employer, AND day release to do your city and guilds etc. ALL apprenticeships had these two parts to them. So far as i know, the only things that do not, are the modern "trades" that have been "invented" in other words, things that really are just "labouring" but now they give you an NVQ in it!!!!

My granny meanwhile, was a qualified school teacher, she had to be, she worked in a state school, BUT, she had never been to a teacher training college, she did an "apprenticeship" as a teacher, difference being, that in 1920 there were no such thing as teaching colleges...

Regardless, ANYONE that claims to be time served, MUST have completed a recognised apprentiship that involved both serving your time AND formal qualifications at night school or on day release, Problem is, there are a lot of cauliflowers out there that were TOO LAZY to do an apprenticeship and wanted to mess about in public houses when others were at night school...

john....

 

[Essex1]

Look, my granny was a school teacher all her life

Anyway, my granny used to talk about boys in the 1950's doing apprenticeships. Even then it involved BOTH "serving your time" with an employer, AND day release to do your city and guilds etc. ALL apprenticeships had these two parts to them. So far as i know, the only things that do not, are the modern "trades" that have been "invented" in other words, things that really are just "labouring" but now they give you an NVQ in it!!!!

My granny meanwhile, was a qualified school teacher, she had to be, she worked in a state school, BUT, she had never been to a teacher training college, she did an "apprenticeship" as a teacher, difference being, that in the 1920 there were no such thing as teaching colleges...

Regardless, ANYONE that claims to be time served, MUST have completed a recognised apprentiship that involved serving your time AND formal qualifications at night school or on day release, Problem is, there are a lot of cauliflowers out there that were TOO LAZY to do an apprentiship and wanted to lazy about in public houses when others were at night school...

john....

I like that explaination. I think you are correct actually. I will now change mine from 'apprenticeship' to 'time served' as I did do on the job training and formal qualifications in day release/night college. 

It would appear the option 'time-served apprenticeship' has been added. 

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Essex, You are correct. EVERYONE that is properly qualified did TWO parts to their "qualifications"

1, The serve your time with an employer bit.

and

2, The day release / night school bit.

[Well, at least this has been the case for about 70 years!!!]

john.

 

[bluetobits]

My employer sent me to tech college full time for the first year, then day release second year while working on the job. Think in total it spanned nearly 5 years. Certainly over 4, but there was no "time" limit.

That was 25 years ago and my college is now a housing estate 

 

[NozSpark]

I like that explaination. I think you are correct actually. I will now change mine from 'apprenticeship' to 'time served' as I did do on the job training and formal qualifications in day release/night college. 

It would appear the option 'time-served apprenticeship' has been added. 

I've just had a look myself..... and now I don't know what I did....

I did an indentured apprenticeship,,,, but I consider that I am "Time served"

In fact my apprenticeship was a contract between my parents and my previous employer,,, at the end of it I got a nice bit of paper that's almost impossible to read (scrolly writing),,, I've still got it somewhere

 

[kerching]

I must dig out my piece of paper.....I seem to recall,it being the size of a small tablecloth and it had a wax seal on it...i think

 

[Essex1]

Did those of you that completed an apprenticeship also receive City and Guilds qualifications?

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Noz, An indentured apprenticeship IS "time served"

As i explained, there are TWO parts, you did both..

You are a proper, "time served" bod without any doubt whatsoever.. [Be proud...]

john...

 

[NozSpark]

Did those of you that completed an apprenticeship also receive City and Guilds qualifications?

All my qualifications during my apprenticeship were BTec... NC, ONC, HNC

however I don't really fit your question,, I guess??

Hi Noz, An indentured apprenticeship IS "time served"

As i explained, there are TWO parts, you did both..

You are a proper, "time served" bod without any doubt whatsoever.. [Be proud...]

john...

That's what I thought TBH,,, but like I've said before I had a different trade back then

 

[roys]

Did those of you that completed an apprenticeship also receive City and Guilds qualifications?

I did C&G for the first two years and then ONC for the last two years of my apprenticeship all through day release.  Went on and did loads of other quals since then.

My indentures were as said by others, a contract between my parents and the company and looked very fancy with that scroll type writing and wax seals, unfortunately I have never seen it since it was signed as it was many years ago and my parents moved several times since then, also they weren't very sentimental about things like that.

i always considered myself a time served (indentured) apprentice.

 

[steptoe]

I need a choice for

Glorified Labourer

added

:C

 

[apprentice87]

Hi All!!

I will address this to ALL of you...

I have had a think, and it has occured to me where all the confusion has arisen.

It is because over the years, a lot of you have listened to, and been confused by, cauliflowers

What i mean is, a lot of you will have heard the idiots that spout; "Bits of paper mean nothing, it is whether you can do the job that counts"

Can i tell you something?? ANYONE that says this.....,....is bitter and twisted because they never passed any exams themselves........... Instead, they go around telling people; "I served my time"

Actually, no, they did not. If they had "served their time" they would DEFINITELY hold the City and Guilds OR BTEC certs that were an intrinsic part of; "serving your time"

For the benefit of any "no quals" But "don't tell me, i was doing this before you were born, i served my time" cauliflowers that may read this. The exams in electrical theory are not just "bits of paper" they certify that you know and understand both WHAT you are doing, and also WHY.

Anyone that doubts the value of such examinations might like to read the current discussion involving the verification of ring finals...

PS, references to a popular vegetable, are to be construed as "standing for" a rather more derogatory, [but censored by the forum software] term!!!

john..