I need some help! Please!

[port2296]

About six months ago I began building a electrical powered brewery in my home (US). Just as I was nearing completion, I received orders to move to Germany (I'm in the military). After thousands of dollars invested in this brewery, I am determined to find a way to make it work. I designed to be supplied with standard US 220v (30A) power which is 2 hot lines, a neutral, and a ground. From what I understand, I believe US 220v means that the 2 hot lines are 180 degrees out of phase. I live on a military installation an my house has both European 220v and 110v. All the 220v outlets are the standard European setup with one hot. I considered combining pulling power from two of the 110v outlets that are on different breakers, but I do not understand phases well enough to know if that will cause trouble. After examining the breaker box, I have determined that I am in over my head. It appears that there are 3 hot wires that supply the main 110v power. I am guessing that each hot wire is a single phase of a 3 phase system that are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. Is it possible to use just 2 of those lines with a neutral and a ground to supply the 220v at 30A that I need?

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[ProDave]

Just use the native 220V supply. Why make things difficult?

 

[port2296]

Most of the components (contactors, SSRs, PIDs) require 110v. I designed it to power these components using just one leg of a US 220v line. In Europe, there is just one 220v hot wire.

I have a wiring diagram, but this site does not allow me to post pictures. It is very similar to the one found here:

 

[Sidewinder]

port,

Welcome to the forum, just a quick point, if it is, very, similar to the diagram you have posted, then for goodness sake, ditch the so called e-stop, because it you use that in an install to EN60364 (European wiring regulaitons), then you may well knock out more than just your brewery!

It's not an e-stop at all, in fact it's a damned stupid idea!.

Unfortunately, I an inadequate idea about what the US supplies are, so I can't help in the conversion.

However, your description does sound about right as far as the 110/220 goes.

Thus, you'll not simulate the 180 deg phase shift.

I would not expect the EU 110 to be 3ph, I would expect it to be a line @ 110 to earth, an earthed neutral and an earth.

I would expect the EU 220V to be 220 to earth with an earthed neutral & earth.

You could re-jig things a little & perhaps just use the 220, to power the ehaters, and a 110V step down Tx for the control.

I would not, use a combination of the 110 & 220V from the mains supply in the same system, IYKWIM.

 

[Andy™]

who's bright idea was it to rely in an RCD tripping as an 'emergency stop'?!

 

[kerching]

who's bright idea was it to rely in an RCD tripping as an 'emergency stop'?!

I seem to recall that was how the old Dolphin showers operated...the ones with a mirrored front and the element encased in clear plastic.2 strings hung out of the sides...pull,one to switch on, pull,other and it put a fault across RCD and it tripped.....nice!

 

[port2296]

I did not add this type of e-stop to my control panel. In theory, it would work just fine though. Considering the amount of water around the a brewery, it is not a bad idea to have an emergency stop triggered by a small current to a RCD. If you really had to kill power, it would probably be because of a water leak and possibly shorting the entire system with a full 220v 30A current. Also, the advantage would be killing the power at the RCD (in the wall) instead of at a main switch inside the control panel (right next to 100 liters of water. 

 

[Andy™]

you are right, its not a bad idea to have an emergency stop, but the way this one designed is a stupid idea. the more simple way is simply have a contactor with a switch to break the supply to the coil which will switch it off. if you want to go further with proper emergency stops etc, then there are specific regulations that must be followed

 

[apprentice87]

The way the emergency stop works, has to be the stupidest thing i have ever seen!!!... To be honest i think you would be far better off designing the thing yourself, [as you seem far from stupid] than relying on designs like that, which were obviously dreamt up by the village idiot..

From what i can see, the thing is designed to get the required 220V "between phases" of the american system and 110v from between a phase and Neutral

Here you will have to change things so that you get the 220 between phase and neutral of the 230v supply we have here, and as has been said, use a transformer to get the 110V for control purposes. The American system is COMPLETELY different from what we have here..

Do not try to go "between phases" here, as you will find out the hard way it is 400V...!!!!!

john..

 

[port2296]

I think I have found my solution. I will rewire my control panel to isolate all of the 110v components. Since I do have 110v supply at the box, I will just run a separate circuit. I should then be able to use relay to control the supply of native 220v power to the heating elements. Unless I am wrong, the native 220v should work fine for the heating elements.

Thanks for the advice on the e-stop. I am not sure how I will end up wiring a safety shutoff switch, but it will certainly not be as depicted in the diagram.  

 

[apprentice87]

Yes, but use a transformer to provide the 110V do not try to have two inputs to this thing..

john...