I was not able to find the fault...gutted >> LOL

[L Plate]

Hello and Evening all,

A friend of mine has a trouble with his socket in the living room , yesterday I tried to find the fault but I go back home with a smile in my face because I was not able to find the fault LOL... in my thought , that was a bit of a challenging situation, I go back again today and tried it again but still can't find the fault ...

here is the situation ... the problem on the trip on the whole circuit early last week started when he tried to fixed his shower bcoz the cable was melted , so he cut it and replace it with the same size of cable using connector block , but since then he has trouble in the whole circuit, so what he did , he took the 30A fused that supplies the ring..

the fuse board was old with rewirable fuses rated 30A, 5A, and 15A..

In the ring circuit there is 3 red cable together , 2 solid 2.5 and a 2.5 stranded wire , ( this makes me confused why there are 3 cable in the ring circuit ) so I assume that must be a spare supply,

step 1 . out of the 3 cable, I took off the one in stranded and leave the 2 solid together and it works except the 3 sockets in the living room , but if i will put back the stranded wire it tripped the whole circuit..

step 2.. I took off the stranded wire again both , red, black and earth and disconnect all those 3 outlets which is not working but still there is a sign of continuity ( using T50 tester ) :C :C :C ...

step 3 .. the same on step 2 but this time I checked the upstairs socket and there is no continuity ,,,, OMG the more i got :C :C :C LOL

I know that those stranded 2.5 cable caused the trip but i can't go further on checking it because my access is limited E.g. taking off the floor boards and see where those cable feed to.

I was challenge myself and really enjoy working on it just to find the fault. the thing is , my mates rented the house so its the landlords responsibility to send someone to fixed it .. I don't ask any from my mates though bcoz he knows that I am trying to explore my knowledge in fault findings... so again I go back home today with the same feeling of annoyed , gutted bcoz i did not able to find the fault .. BUT my personal findings is, the 2.5 stranded cable is connected to the JB and from the JB they took another feed to somewhere that caused the trip , but again maybe if i have a chance to knocked off those floor boards i would be much happy today..

anyway , this is just a small share , as you all know that I am still on my learning zone ...but can anyone think of what cause the fault is ..

cheeers and have a nice weekend to all...

 

[kme]

What you really NEED for fault finding is a full meter(s) kit, with continuity (NOT T50), insulation and loop / RCD testing.

If the cable you had taken out was connected into the ring (or even formed one end of the ring!), you would have created a dangerous situation without knowing it.

2 things come to mind.

1. Why did the shower cable melt? Is it the wrong size? Was it damaged? What are the "connectors" enclosed in (if anything)?

2. Why should the melted shower cable have anything to do with some sockets on the ring circuit (which sounds like a radial which has been carelessly added to the ring OCPD).

My advice? Get a properly trained electrician in to determine what other dangers there are with the property. He may let you watch/ask questions/explain; but your friend will be safer and you are less likely to kill yourself, or someone else.

KME

 

[L Plate]

Thanks KME.

the shower unit cable was melted because it was installed very low from the floor level , when i open the unit i can see a trace of water ( moist ) it was not really safe because the unit is only about 5ft high .... I am aware about the shower and in fact i told my mate the he needs a trained spark to sort out his shower ( special location ) , all I was interested really was just to find the fault in the sockets.. but yea , your advice is really accepted.. and BTW the connector block he used to connect , since he cut the melted cable , there is not enough cable from the main feed so he use CB to connect it. thanks again , much appreciated.

 

[steptoe]

this guy has 3 fuses by the sounds of things,

a 30

a 15

and a 5

so his shower is on a 30 shared by the ring,

alarm bells KME.?

or have I read this all wrong,?

I admit to skip reading as it was grinding me a little.

 

[kme]

mate:

I read it that the fusebox was populated with 5, 15 and 30 A breakers - not necessarily one of each........though I could be wrong.

L-plate: so where is this choc-box with connectors in it, respective to the shower? I`m a little worried about your description, TBH

 

[steptoe]

What you really NEED for fault finding is a full meter(s) kit, with continuity (NOT T50), insulation and loop / RCD testing.If the cable you had taken out was connected into the ring (or even formed one end of the ring!), you would have created a dangerous situation without knowing it.

2 things come to mind.

1. Why did the shower cable melt? Is it the wrong size? Was it damaged? What are the "connectors" enclosed in (if anything)?

2. Why should the melted shower cable have anything to do with some sockets on the ring circuit (which sounds like a radial which has been carelessly added to the ring OCPD).

My advice? Get a properly trained electrician in to determine what other dangers there are with the property. He may let you watch/ask questions/explain; but your friend will be safer and you are less likely to kill yourself, or someone else.

KME

this is the solution methinks

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I was challenge myself and really enjoy working on it just to find the fault. the thing is , my mates rented the house so its the landlords responsibility to send someone to fixed it ..

I would get your mate to check he is not breaking part of his tenancy agreement messing around with the shower cable???

Its possible that the Landlord may have grounds to charge you for messing around with part of the fixed installation in his property..

IMHO he could possibly accuse YOU of messing up the electrics and putting a fault onto the wiring..

Walk away and get the Landlord to appoint someone to sort it out!

 

[sellers]

I concurr,

You need all the right tools to fault find L plate, best thing to do would be to get someone in, and then maybe go round and have a look what he does to find the fault and what the fault is.

 

[Megaohm7]

By the sound of things, all was well until your friend attempted to fix his melted shower cable. My thoughts would be to investigate this first but it does seem as if the shower cable has been put on the same fuse as the ring main? Like the other members have said this does need investigating properly using proper equipment and with a qualified spark. I would suggest that maybe you can be there when the qualified spark is there fault finding as you could learn something too. Your friend needs to be aware of the tenancy agreement with regards to doing any repairs on the electrical installation.

 

[L Plate]

Hello again ,

First , @KME . i hope i can explain this clearly this time , the 10mm FTE cable for the shower is run with a 30A rewirable fuse , now in the shower unit , the terminal for Phase ( L ) and for Neutral ( N ) and for earth , assuming that it was properly connected before , but as I've said it was melted due to the moist , on the red and black cable's insulation was the one get melted , so my mate cut the melted part and use connector block to reconnect it ...

Anyway, the qualified electrician came down this morning and I was there to see and observe on how to find the fault, but beforehand , I introduced myself and said that I am taking 2330 with a little knowledge on the hands on side , I explain to him what I did couple days ago regarding finding the faults, I also explain to him about the shower so that was the first thing he worked out and said that the shower needs to move a bit higher .. so back to the faults in the outlets , I explain to him on what was my opinion. He checked all the sockets using multi tester and told me that I am right on finding which cable source caused the faults. he decided to run a new cable to the living room and disconnect the old one from the CU, so I give him a hand mounting the trunking on the wall. at the end, he asked my number and said i will give u a call if I have a big job ....and thats it < i was glad that I was able to gain a bit of knowledge today concerning fault findings... the important is , I got new contact >> LOL ...

@Megaohms, the shower was run on its own 30A and not together with the ring ..

thank you all guys and have a nice evening

 

[Manator]

Ok but what faults did he find? Did he show you the correct logical method of finding these faults? Why did the shower need to be raised higher to prevent an electrical fault? Or am I misinterpreting a fault procedure I have never known ?

Contacts are always good, but make sure your contacts are good.

 

[L Plate]

Evening Manator,

I was bit of a hurry with my reply , Yea he showed me what was the reason of the faults in the sockets , the wall was damp and also in the shower he explain to me why we need to raise the new shower unit a bit high to comply with the new regulation ( RED book section 701 and he also showed me in the onsite guide page 69.

thank Manator

 

[revjames]

Yes it does tend to get a bit damp in a shower enclosure

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

...and also in the shower he explain to me why we need to raise the new shower unit a bit high to comply with the new regulation ( RED book section 701 and he also showed me in the onsite guide page 69.....

wibble wobble...

I feel like pushing some pencils up me nose here ..

and tie me hanky on me head ..

I can't believe I am reading this?

I am sorry BUT..

Neither section 701 nor page 69 of OSG give any regulations stating how high a shower should be installed!

In fact I would be very interested to know which specific reg you are referring to?

By their very nature shower units are designed to be installed in zone 1

and have a shower spray head mounted above (higher than) the control unit..

thus they are regularly in contact with water spray...

In fact you can wash over the cover of an electric show by pointing the shower head at it to rinse any soap bubbles off the control buttons if you so wish!



Your burned out cable will be due to a lose connection NOT damp!

:| :C

 

[L Plate]

SL,

Sorry, the damp wall I was talking about is the problem with the sockets and not the shower ... sorry Sir, if I confused you

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

SL, Sorry, the damp wall I was talking about is the problem with the sockets and not the shower ... sorry Sir, if I confused you

OK...

so whats this mysterious regulation saying you have got to move the shower higher up the wall?????

 

[L Plate]

SL,

TBH , the sparky said that we need to raise the new shower unit a bit higher since its only 4.9ft above the basin, the regulation i was stating earlier, he just showed to me where to find all about showers and bath in special location section, I did ask this from him since I don't have my 17th edition wiring regulation course yet .. my apology , I might worded it wrong.. i will blame it to this >>>> Bud Girl Background - Bud Girl Wallpaper - Bud Girl Theme .. I mean the beer not the girl... anyway , thanks SL

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I very much doubt there is any need to move the shower...

Best to read shower manufactures instructions for this information..

NOT the regs..

For example look at page 7 of this user manual..

http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/pdfs/01/p4182001.pdf

we find two bits of guidance...

1/ Height of sprayhead and shower to suit user's requirement

2/ Shower unit must not be within an area 1 metre from base

:|