install 10mm earth bind to water and gas

[keyan]

Hi all,

I have property that needs an earth bind installed for incoming water and gas utilities (both copper pipes all through property).

Currently there is an "earth bond" connected to the GAS entry upstairs and it goes through floor board downstairs to the water stop. The issue is it is not connected to from either end to the main earth terminal block near the CU.

Now the issue is the main earth terminal block and CU are on the bottom floor while the boiler and gas pipe entry are upstairs.

The only option I can think of is to run a 10mm cable from the terminal block to the outside wall of the house and take it upstairs to the where gas pipe entry is and bond that and connect it to the existing "bond cable" going to the water pipe downstairs. (Externally run cable will be in conduit of course). Is this correct?

 

[Evans Electric]

Run it to the gas upstairs  OR the water downstairs  back to  the main earth block  .         ( This situation calls for the cable to be "Continuous"   ....up to you if you want to worry about that  )     

 

[Murdoch]

Run it to the gas upstairs  OR the water downstairs  back to  the main earth block  .         ( This situation calls for the cable to be "Continuous"   ....up to you if you want to worry about that  )     

continuous is not a regulation

 

[Andy™]

continuous is not a regulation

yes it is. 6.4 of BS7430

Where both main gas pipes and main water pipes enter a location, a common
bonding conductor may be used, but in such cases that conductor should be
continuous or should be permanently jointed (by soldering or crimping) in order
to preserve continuity. Such a bonding conductor may also be used in
association with other extraneous-conductive-parts.

 

[Murdoch]

yes it is. 6.4 of BS7430

Its not in BS 7671 ............... 

and I doubt many people know what BS 7430 is

 

[Andy™]

Its not in BS 7671 ............... 

and I doubt many people know what BS 7430 is

not in 7671 no, but you said it wasnt a regulation... it is, just in a diferent standard

 

[Murdoch]

not in 7671 no, but you said it wasn't a regulation... it is, just in a different standard

hum ok but we install and inspect to BS 7671 ..........

 

[Sharpend]

I have read it in BS7671 sometime ago, thought it was a requirement myself :C  

 

[Evans Electric]

I thought it was always a requirement .....been doing it for years .        Usually stripping  out a 2" section of G/Y insulation & hooking it under the  earth clamp screw.   

I know these things go out of fashion like  bonding kitchen  sink tops .      It was presented as the most important thing in the whole world as far as  sparks were concerned ... while plumbers went around ,  happily fitting sink tops  without a thought to bonding them .  

Much the same with those ugly earth clips & jumper wires under C/H  boilers  even though all the pipes were attached to a common metal plate. 

 

[UNG]

I always remember it as a requirement back as far as the 14th edition, was drummed into you at college and I vaguely remember it as an exam question way back in the late 70's

 

[binky]

Hi all,

I have property that needs an earth bind installed for incoming water and gas utilities (both copper pipes all through property).

Currently there is an "earth bond" connected to the GAS entry upstairs and it goes through floor board downstairs to the water stop. The issue is it is not connected to from either end to the main earth terminal block near the CU.

Now the issue is the main earth terminal block and CU are on the bottom floor while the boiler and gas pipe entry are upstairs.

The only option I can think of is to run a 10mm cable from the terminal block to the outside wall of the house and take it upstairs to the where gas pipe entry is and bond that and connect it to the existing "bond cable" going to the water pipe downstairs. (Externally run cable will be in conduit of course). Is this correct?

so take bond to water or gas, and if necessary to achieve 'continuis connection use a permanent crimp to join cable lengths. 

 

[Andy™]

hum ok but we install and inspect to BS 7671 ..........

we do, so arugably as were are I&T to BS7671 then you cant code it for that alone as its not a non compliance with 7671, in the same was as if there is emergency lighting then we test the wiring to it that is covered by 7671 but we dont I&T the parts of it covered by 5266

however as 7430 applies to earthing its also relevant to your installation and would need to be followed. same as you would follow 5266 in addition to 7671 if you were installing emergency lighting

 

[Murdoch]

we do, so arguably as were are I&T to BS7671 then you cant code it for that alone as its not a non compliance with 7671, in the same was as if there is emergency lighting then we test the wiring to it that is covered by 7671 but we don't I&T the parts of it covered by 5266

however as 7430 applies to earthing its also relevant to your installation and would need to be followed. same as you would follow 5266 in addition to 7671 if you were installing emergency lighting

Disagree - unless its stated in BS7671 that BS 7430 should be followed

My previous statement stands.

FWIW I'm playing the devils advocate here and its such complexity that's being layered on sparks, is there any wonder why the standards are dropping yearly

K eep

I t

S imple

S tupid

But the idiots creating all the complexity forget about the obvious......

 

[Andy™]

Disagree - unless its stated in BS7671 that BS 7430 should be followed

My previous statement stands.

FWIW I'm playing the devils advocate here and its such complexity that's being layered on sparks, is there any wonder why the standards are dropping yearly

K eep

I t

S imple

S tupid

But the idiots creating all the complexity forget about the obvious......

 the scope of 7430 says it applies to earthing. its also referenced to in 7671 so it applies...

 

[Sharpend]

 the scope of 7430 says it applies to earthing. its also referenced to in 7671 so it applies...

I don’t dispute what you are saying Andy I think what Murdoch is getting at is if you didn’t have a book on Earthing in reference to Bs7430 then how would you know? 

 

[Andy™]

I don’t dispute what you are saying Andy I think what Murdoch is getting at is if you didn’t have a book on Earthing in reference to Bs7430 then how would you know? 

well thats th awkward part of having multiple standards. why it needs its own in addition to 7671 i have no idea. maybe for some specialist areas / situations but for general wiring then anything you need to know should already be included in 7671 with everything else

 

[Murdoch]

The model forms in BS 7671 are the ones we use to document against BS 7671 installations

No other regulations could be applied

and this is where the Napit code breakers falls down as it refers to other codes of practice, which AFAIR are not referred to in BS 7671

K

I

S

S

 

[Andy™]

The model forms in BS 7671 are the ones we use to document against BS 7671 installations

No other regulations could be applied

and this is where the Napit code breakers falls down as it refers to other codes of practice, which AFAIR are not referred to in BS 7671

K

I

S

S

so why do you work to BS7671? because its scope covers electrical work and thats the relevant standard?

same with emergency lighting - you follow 5266 because thats the relevant standard by its scope.

fire alarms - you follow 5288 because thats the relevant standard by its scope

earthing - thats covered by the scope of 7430

in case of all above, they are additional standards to be used in conjunction with 7671. model forms have nothing to do with this. yes, they are for 7671 works, but thats it. bit like saying your not going to install a fire alarm to 5288 because you only follow 7671 ad its not in there

and as i said earlier, any I&T is to 7671 and as were on about something thats a 7430 reg then no, you cant code it on an EICR imo as its covered by a different standard and not by a specific reg of 7671.

 

[Phoenix]

God knows what we do when something doesn't meet BS7671, but does meet its own BS, and 7671 specifically references the standard and calls for installations to be in accordance with them.

Example I'm thinking of is a RLVS 110v centre taped to earth set up where 5second disconnection time is not quite met, but its not much longer than that, and where the cables have been assessed to withstand the fault currents for extra disconnection time. BS7671 says 5second disconnection time, but also refers to BS7375, which doesn't specify a specific time as the touch voltage during a fault is deemed low enough that its not important, as long as the fault is cleared before the cable is damaged...

 

[Murdoch]

in case of all above, they are additional standards to be used in conjunction with 7671. model forms have nothing to do with this. yes, they are for 7671 works, but thats it. bit like saying your not going to install a fire alarm to 5288 because you only follow 7671 ad its not in there

Yes they do.

When we install & test we sign to say the work we have done complies with BS 7671 .............. its as simple as that. Next time I have a CPS review face to face (not had one for 3 years AFAIR) I'll ask my assessor.

Surely nobody is surprised that people don't understand the complexity of BS 7671 never mind expecting people to have copies of, and understand regulations they aren't assessed on?