isolation of industrial machinery

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adammid

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Can anyone tell me the regulations for isolation of industrial machinery?

1)Does it state that isolation must be within 2 meters of the equipment?

2)Would a fused tap off box fitted on a bus bar 3 meters above the machine be an acceptable means of isolation?

There is a stop/start fitted on the machine itself but would this be acceptable as cannot lock off.

 
You will need to look at the section in the regs

on Isolation Switching and Control.

There is a 3 metre rule that applies when there is

a conductor size reduction.

With regard to (2) what standard is applicable to this

method you propose?

The stop/start, if it cannot be locked is not

suitable as a means of isolation for maintenance purposes.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes agree that the Stop/start would not be suitable as a means of isolation for mechanical maintenance but would I be correct in saying that

1) an mcb would

2) a fused box which can be unplugged from the busbar would too.

Apologies but in not sure what you mean when you say say what standard would be applicable to this method that you propose.

 
If you can lock off the mcb it is suitable.

Check table 54.3 of the regs page 149.

2) Would removal of the fused tap off box

expose live parts? Pictures?

 
I'll try and get some pics and post but no the fused tap off box would just unplug without exposing live parts.

PS how can you add photos when using the iPhone app? Thanks.

 
Yes can do. What is the www address for this forum? I only have the app.

 
You can attach pics to your post.

Having started a thread (as you

have done) you can attach pics

as you go along.

 
How would you comply with the requirements of PUWER98, if there is no accessible emergency means of isolation of electrical energy?

A tap off box 3m in the air would not meet this requirement.

Start/stop "button" do not meet the requirement for isolation of energy for maintenance either.

One needs to be careful as there is statute law governing electrical installations in places of Orkney, that may have requirements over & above BS7671, which after all is not statute.

 
Sidewinder- what is PUWER98 and I do not work in Orkney. Not sure what relevance this has?

 
Sidewinder- what is PUWER98 and I do not work in Orkney. Not sure what relevance this has?
Threw me totally TBH . I think Canoey must have sent him some of his special brew!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:04 ----------

I use a simple rule of thumb with isolation , it needs to be accessible . Seems to cover most situations .

So its NO for the tap-off box above .

And its NO for the stop button as that would stop the machine but not ISOLATE it.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:09 ----------

PUWER is the Providing and use of Work Equipment .

 
Sidewinder- what is PUWER98 and I do not work in Orkney. Not sure what relevance this has?
OK, first things first, a huge apology for the Orkney comment.

I was replying in a big hurry on a device with absolutely useless predictive text/spell checker.

I made the big error of not reading the post correctly before pressing the reply button.

So sorry.

In my defence, it is a new device, and I am still getting used to its foibles!

OK back to PUWER98.

PUWER98 is "The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998".

This is statute law, anyone working in areas that this applies should to be competent be aware of the requirements of this legislation.

One can go to jail for non compliance, fines are AFAIK unlimited depending on the severity of the offence.

Now, it only applies to employers whose premises, employees & equipment that are under their control.

However, IF you are employed as the competent person to design and install "devices" that come under this regulation, then if you design and install a system that does not comply then you had better hope that you have good PI Insurance because in the event of an issue yo'll need it to keep your fines to a minimum, and keep you out of prison.

Oh and one quirk of PI is that it has to be in place at the time of the claim, NOT the time of the"work" as is the norm with ELI & PLI.

Now, if you are not familiar with the statute law requirements of the work, are you doing this for an employer or for "yourself"?

If for an employer, then you can get them if big trouble and yourself sacked, if for "yourself" then you need to ask are you competent to do this?

Remember BS7671 is "optional" with respect to statute law, IF you can prove total compliance with EAWR, ESQCR & PUWER98, along with all other requirements, e.g. Part P, or whatever else applies, perhaps even manufacturers instructions without following BS7671 then you are free to do so.

However, in a location where employed persons are working, even self employed, or directors of a Ltd. Co. then statute laws apply.

You will find that you also have a duty under "Common" or "Case" law of a "Duty Of Care", which has to be proven in front of a jury, but the evidence will be presented by your peers or "superiors" within the industry, who will be experts in their field, and will show almost certainly that if you have messed up, you are incompetent.

Now I am not at this stage saying you are incompetent, what I am saying is that IF this ends up in heap big doo doo's you will be presented with a prosecution case that you will have a big job defeating without PII to cover you for the work in question, and having the relevant competence to demonstrate this, which will be reflected in your PII premium and if you don't have the required level of demonstrable competence your PI insurer may well state that you are in breach of the policy conditions and hang you out to dry.

 
OK, first things first, a huge apology for the Orkney comment.I was replying in a big hurry on a device with absolutely useless predictive text/spell checker.

I made the big error of not reading the post correctly before pressing the reply button.

So sorry.

In my defence, it is a new device, and I am still getting used to its foibles!

OK back to PUWER98.

PUWER98 is "The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998".

This is statute law, anyone working in areas that this applies should to be competent be aware of the requirements of this legislation.

One can go to jail for non compliance, fines are AFAIK unlimited depending on the severity of the offence.

Now, it only applies to employers whose premises, employees & equipment that are under their control.

However, IF you are employed as the competent person to design and install "devices" that come under this regulation, then if you design and install a system that does not comply then you had better hope that you have good PI Insurance because in the event of an issue yo'll need it to keep your fines to a minimum, and keep you out of prison.

Oh and one quirk of PI is that it has to be in place at the time of the claim, NOT the time of the"work" as is the norm with ELI & PLI.

Now, if you are not familiar with the statute law requirements of the work, are you doing this for an employer or for "yourself"?

If for an employer, then you can get them if big trouble and yourself sacked, if for "yourself" then you need to ask are you competent to do this?

Remember BS7671 is "optional" with respect to statute law, IF you can prove total compliance with EAWR, ESQCR & PUWER98, along with all other requirements, e.g. Part P, or whatever else applies, perhaps even manufacturers instructions without following BS7671 then you are free to do so.

However, in a location where employed persons are working, even self employed, or directors of a Ltd. Co. then statute laws apply.

You will find that you also have a duty under "Common" or "Case" law of a "Duty Of Care", which has to be proven in front of a jury, but the evidence will be presented by your peers or "superiors" within the industry, who will be experts in their field, and will show almost certainly that if you have messed up, you are incompetent.

Now I am not at this stage saying you are incompetent, what I am saying is that IF this ends up in heap big doo doo's you will be presented with a prosecution case that you will have a big job defeating without PII to cover you for the work in question, and having the relevant competence to demonstrate this, which will be reflected in your PII premium and if you don't have the required level of demonstrable competence your PI insurer may well state that you are in breach of the policy conditions and hang you out to dry.
It's great this Industry!!!

 
I'm just astounded at how many different laws and regulations we are expected to be aware of, for example if you are a small set up and you wish to branch out into a new field, then how are you supposed to know what 'other' laws/regs you are going to have to comply with? Without finding out when it's too late?

Your post, while may be correct, could certainly make others think twice before moving out and developing their skill set.

I often come on here to listen to others experience/s and have learned of so many other laws/regs that I had not come across.

I just wonder whether other trades/industries have so many laws/regs too adhere too?

 
The posts referring to PUWER '98 are absolutely

relevant and the issue of the height (3 metre)

is just as important. I think we should let

Amlec post his pictures and then go forward.

Sharp's post on the complexity of the legislation

is just as relevant. It looks like a minefield.

I had a (nearly) stand up row with a client in

connection with a piece of kit I had to sign off

following its first installation some years ago.

I told him I would write to him explaining (chapter

& verse) how I arrived at my decision.

It is up to all of us to inform, explain and guide

other people as best we can.

 
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