Kitchen and Bathroom upgrades

[Sanj007]

Hi Everyone,

I live in a semi-detached 3bed standard size domestic house in Surrey built approximately 1973.

Im planning to re-furbish the Kitchen and Shower Room to include electric under floor heating mats.

Will I be adding too much load on to the existing RCD?

Also in the future I was thinking about upgrading the heating system which is a traditional warm air heating unit which supplies hot hair through vents in a central core to the house at ground and first floor.

rather than doing central heating I was considering electric panel heaters which look quite sleek these days and allot more environmentally friendly.

I assume this would definitely increase the load on the house?

Obviously I would employ a qualified electrician to do all of this work.

Your advice first hand would be much appreciated.

Thanks?

 

[Evans Electric]

Its doubtful you will be adding too much load  .    I think where you say RCD  may be the wrong term .      Note that  the  floor will have to be taken up and prepared for floor mats , then relaid .   Also floor heating  is not the most efficient of systems IMHO  ...needs to be switched on well  before you actually need it .   

Is the ducted heating system not up to the job ?   Is it gas fired ?  

Forum heating engineer may be better  commenting on that .   

 

[Geoff1946]

All I would point out is that electricity is the most expensive energy source for domestic heating.  

 

[Sharpend]

Electric underfloor heating is more a gimmick than heating, it takes the chill of the tiled floor so your toes don’t curl up. 

 

[Murdoch]

Where in Surrey are you? 
 

I’m in Woking , so if you’re in this area I would happily look at this BUT if you think electric underfloor heating is an alternative to radiators, then think again

 

[Sanj007]

Where in Surrey are you? 
 

I’m in Woking , so if you’re in this area I would happily look at this BUT if you think electric underfloor heating is an alternative to radiators, then think again

Thanks mate. I’m in kt8. Im not thinking of the ufh replacing the main heating just that my extension has never been heated and it would be nice for the floors to have some warmth to. Im looking at electric rads as the technology has really come along. 

 

[Sanj007]

Its doubtful you will be adding too much load  .    I think where you say RCD  may be the wrong term .      Note that  the  floor will have to be taken up and prepared for floor mats , then relaid .   Also floor heating  is not the most efficient of systems IMHO  ...needs to be switched on well  before you actually need it .   

Is the ducted heating system not up to the job ?   Is it gas fired ?  

Forum heating engineer may be better  commenting on that .   

Thanks for your reply. Problem with the gas supplied ducted heating source is the effectiveness. It’s either very hot or not. Plus its not very healthy. Ive thought about rad, but im not keen on ripping my floor finished up and im not keen on surface mounting the pipe work. With regards to the ufh, this is to my kitchen and bathroom which i want to refurbish. So im ripping the floors up with the mat placed beneath the tiles on ditra mat.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Thanks mate. I’m in kt8. Im not thinking of the ufh replacing the main heating just that my extension has never been heated and it would be nice for the floors to have some warmth to. Im looking at electric rads as the technology has really come along. 

Have you factored in long term reliability, maintenance and replacement costs for if or when the heating system of choice fails???

I have a customer who I had to visit three weeks ago to test their UFH...

2x electric mats were fitted in an extension they had built in 2015...

I wired the supplies and tested and connected the mats..

But a "specialist floor company" supplied and fitted the mats themselves..

(as I will not supply or fit such items due to potential headaches from dissatisfied customers if they fail prematurely.)

Anyway, one mat has now failed 22ohms to earth, tripping RCD..

First used October 2015..  failed November 2020!!!  

5 years of use..  now outside of any manufactures warranties etc..

basically they are bu99erd now without lifting the ceramic floor tiles..

no idea how the costs of replacing the faulty mat would compare with the carbon footprint of traditional boiler, pipes & radiators??

There seems to be a lot of media hype and "news" at the moment about Green electric cars..

and banning "dirty" Gas boilers...

But I can see one helluva lot of problems in the years to come if too much reliance is placed on electricity..

As my old granny used to say..   "Don't Put All Your Eggs In One Basket".

Guinness   

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks mate. I’m in kt8. Im not thinking of the ufh replacing the main heating just that my extension has never been heated and it would be nice for the floors to have some warmth to. Im looking at electric rads as the technology has really come along. 

OK - well outside my normal working zone BUT I do recommend you find a local spark to do this work ................ taking short cuts could mean an expensive bill now and no heating later

For the kitchen maybe consider a plinth heater or 2

 

[Geoff1946]

I wouldn't dismiss UFH but it will need to be properly installed. My son has it in his large extension and it is excellent but was a lot of work and cost to install as the extension was built

You say you have already laid the floor and don't want to disturb it. 

My son's installation started at the foundation base slab, firstly topped with six inches of foam insulation. Umpteen metres of special plastic pipe laid in coils on that, then a concrete screed, followed by parquet.

It then has its own pump and temperature control system and connects to the gas fired boiler which serves the rest of the house.  In practice the UFH keeps the whole house warm with the conventional red's doing little.

However, I can't see a few electric heating mats fitted as an afterthought, doing well.  Sorry, just my opinion, but you get what you pay for.

 

[ProDave]

Forget UFH of ANY sort in this building unless you are prepared to do the job properly.

There will be no insulation whatsoever under the floor in a 1973 build, so if you slap UFH there, probably 90% of the heat you put in will be totally wasted heating the ground under the house.

UFH works VERY well in a new build, ours is all wet UFH but there is 300mm of insulation under the floor.  to do the job properly on an old house you need to be digging up the floor, excavating to add a similar amount of insulation and re laying the floor.

 

[Sanj007]

Have you factored in long term reliability, maintenance and replacement costs for if or when the heating system of choice fails???

I have a customer who I had to visit three weeks ago to test their UFH...

2x electric mats were fitted in an extension they had built in 2015...

I wired the supplies and tested and connected the mats..

But a "specialist floor company" supplied and fitted the mats themselves..

(as I will not supply or fit such items due to potential headaches from dissatisfied customers if they fail prematurely.)

Anyway, one mat has now failed 22ohms to earth, tripping RCD..

First used October 2015..  failed November 2020!!!  

5 years of use..  now outside of any manufactures warranties etc..

basically they are bu99erd now without lifting the ceramic floor tiles..

no idea how the costs of replacing the faulty mat would compare with the carbon footprint of traditional boiler, pipes & radiators??

There seems to be a lot of media hype and "news" at the moment about Green electric cars..

and banning "dirty" Gas boilers...

But I can see one helluva lot of problems in the years to come if too much reliance is placed on electricity..

As my old granny used to say..   "Don't Put All Your Eggs In One Basket".

Guinness   

Some great advice here thanks allot mate. I’m going go re-think my strategy!

Forget UFH of ANY sort in this building unless you are prepared to do the job properly.

There will be no insulation whatsoever under the floor in a 1973 build, so if you slap UFH there, probably 90% of the heat you put in will be totally wasted heating the ground under the house.

UFH works VERY well in a new build, ours is all wet UFH but there is 300mm of insulation under the floor.  to do the job properly on an old house you need to be digging up the floor, excavating to add a similar amount of insulation and re laying the floor.

Thanks mate. I hadn’t forgotten the insulation and know i would need something beneath the floor to deflect the heat up. But as you mention doing this on a refurb would be a ballache! 

OK - well outside my normal working zone BUT I do recommend you find a local spark to do this work ................ taking short cuts could mean an expensive bill now and no heating later

For the kitchen maybe consider a plinth heater or 2

Plinth heaters are a good shout.

 

[Murdoch]

Plinth heaters are a good shout.

best you write up a speed of what you’d like to have then get some sparks around to discuss and quote

 

[binky]

Electric infrared panel heater heats people and objects first by using the technology of long wave electromagnetic energy. After the individuals and objects are warmed they release the warmth into the air which then heats the ambient air.

It always soinds like you are going to cook yourself!  :^O .

Are the ceiling mounted units any good? 

 

[NozSpark]

It always soinds like you are going to cook yourself!  :^O .

Are the ceiling mounted units any good? 

Personally I always think that most of their comments are "cut & pasted"

 

[binky]

Personally I always think that most of their comments are "cut & pasted"

standardised sales blurb you mean  :^O