Lead Supply

[beemer]

Went to a house today with a lead pipe water supply and not able to find MEB. All that could be seen is the main isolator tap sticking out of a lead pipe boxed in. I pulled off some of the boxing in to reveal lead pipe going upstairs and down under the floor, with no sign of any earth cable!

My question is can I/must I bond to lead or try to find out where the lead joins onto copper and bond there????

 

[welshwizard]

Hi Beemer.

A tough one Mate - Some would say not to use BS951 clips.

Others will say they have used them without any problems to date.

Some would say solder it on, But I would say - 10mm

 

[cheggers]

If you cant find the stopcock or copper I would bond it where I could, at the end of the day you are improving the installation

 

[steptoe]

DONT BOND.!!!!

for gawds sake dont even touch it.!!!!

seriously, you could get in some serious sh1t.

note on your cert that it doesnt meet 16th edd and explain why.

Then give it a number 1 in the urgent remedial section and explain why again,

ie, requires 'others' to improve plumbing before you can provide main bonding to comply with current electrical regs.

give your client the cert and explain to them you cant touch it cos its lead, they need a plumber to sort out the pipework first.

 

[steptoe]

If you cant find the stopcock or copper I would bond it where I could, at the end of the day you are improving the installation

until you kink/crush the pipe and get a leak.

remember, its against the law (AFAIK) to work with lead pipe in a domestic premises now.

you would be the last person to work with/modify/change/or alter the pipe so you would be liable.

 

[biker mike]

544.1.2 The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas ,water or any other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point,or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumers hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework . where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external ..........

 

[biker mike]

until you kink/crush the pipe and get a leak.remember, its against the law (AFAIK) to work with lead pipe in a domestic premises now.

so what u dont bond it ? if theres no copper for example ,its all lead what do u tell the customer ? and how do u overcome the problem ,if they wont pay to have the waterboard come and renew the incoming supply or the plumber to renew the pipework? How do you overcome the bonding ?? ?:|

 

[steptoe]

as mike has pointed out, HARD metal pipework.

if you really want to bond it just find a copper cold water pipe somewhere/anywhere and bond onto that.

doesnt matter where it is in the building, as long as it is a cold feed and you note the reasons for bonding in that location on your cert.

ie,' pipework mainly in lead'

oh, and remember and label your cable at the MET and also an additional label stating where the bond has been made would be good also.

 

[steptoe]

so what u dont bond it ? if theres no copper for example ,its all lead what do u tell the customer ? and how do u overcome the problem ,if they wont pay to have the waterboard come and renew the incoming supply or the plumber to renew the pipework? How do you overcome the bonding ?? ?:|

its not waterboard, its only on consumer side.

no bond is not your problem, as long as you note as such on your cert, deviation from 16th, if the pipe isnt there you cant bond to it.

up to the client to decide if he wants it or not.

same as installs done in all poly, no requirement to bond them at all.

 

[biker mike]

i know it's highly unlikely to not have any copper pipe in the house/property at all but would still like to know how it could be overcome?

 

[biker mike]

cheers steptoe .

 

[steptoe]

basically mike, if you cant find any copper, and its got to be in an accessible location,

then you cant bond. its that simple.

you just note on your cert and thats all.

remember the 15th when metal windows had to be bonded? how many people actually allowed that to be done retrospectively? none that I ever informed. (prob why that reg got removed VERY quickly, nobodys house, absolutely nobodys conformed.!!!

oh, and you cant bond to stainless either unless you have a special type of clamp(alledgely).

you cant overcome a fault in the plumbing mike, your a spark.

 

[welshwizard]

if you really want to bond it just find a copper cold water pipe somewhere/anywhere and bond onto that.

I thought i'd put that in my reply, But I had ommited it.

I use these: Great for sink tops too.

 

[steptoe]

yep WW, made for doing rads, but why do people bond the rad anyway, same with sink, 99.99% of domestic dont need it done.

IMHO if it does need done then the rest of the bonding aint up to scratch

 

[welshwizard]

 

[beemer]

544.1.2 The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas ,water or any other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point,or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumers hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework . where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external ..........

So I find the nearest (hard metal) cold water, copper pipe and bond there?

 

[steptoe]

yep, if there is one, tho TBH by the sounds of things your prob only likely to find some tails going to rads or sink etc in copper.

make sure you note this down on your cert, that

""main pipework is lead, therefore main bond is at "*upstairs cylinder*" , this requires improvement""

or something similar, also make a notice of this fact at the CU.

remember, the main bond has to be somewhere accessible/visible, not usually a good idea to start lifting boards etc to inspect a bonding clamp.

remember, these views are only my own, others may have a different opinion.

 

[The Godfather]

yep WW, made for doing rads, but why do people bond the rad anyway, same with sink, 99.99% of domestic dont need it done.IMHO if it does need done then the rest of the bonding aint up to scratch

I'll agree with Steptoe, I like him..

 

[cheggers]

I agree with your post steptoe but if beemer has carried out any work on the installation he has to make sure that the installation is bonded or walk away without touching it. just putting cant bond ect ect on cert is surly not good enough. A word with the customer about the fact of lead pipes and lead poisoning doesn't worry them I suppose a simple water bond will bother them either

 

[steptoe]

I agree with your post steptoe but if beemer has carried out any work on the installation he has to make sure that the installation is bonded or walk away without touching it. just putting cant bond ect ect on cert is surly not good enough. A word with the customer about the fact of lead pipes and lead poisoning doesn't worry them I suppose a simple water bond will bother them either

legally cheggers if you point out to the customer that their installation does not meet the current regs and in your opinion it is unsafe then you are covered.

remember, its not against the law not to have bonding, its a deviation from the current regs.

but NOT illegal in a building that was wired to a different version of the regs, ie, 13th or 14th.

you DO NOT have to make the customer do something they do not want, you only have to leave the install in as was or less dangerous condition, you do NOT have to make it any safer.

IMHO if you bond to lead pipe you are either

A- breaking the law by modifying a lead plumbing installation

B- breaking the law by not using a clamp designed for lead piping (Im assuming you are not a qualified pipe jointer certified to work on lead)

there is a limitations box on your cert, also there is a box for observations, and if you really wanted to you can issue a failure to comply cert, get the customer to sign, you both get a copy then its up to them to rectify the fault, you have your signed copy to wave in court.

as I said, these are only my opinions based on past experiences, others may have done it differently, but Im not a plumber.