Licensing For Flats in the Thanet Area

[pdthomas1952]

Sometime ago I bought a couple of cheap flats in Margate with the lump sum out of my pension to supplement the retirement. They were refurbed to a good standard, new Kitchen, Bathroom, etc, etc. and I swapped out the single RCD board for a new one using RCBOs as there are only 5 final circuits. It was tested and a certificate issued all as per the rules. Imagine my surprise when I got a letter from the Licensing authority for Margate with an estimate from a registered contractor, saying that the installation needed upgrading to a twin RCD board and earthing "improvements"within the next few weeks and an estimate of £795+VAT per flat!

Now I know that the rules are going to require high integrity metal enclosures for any installation after the 1st June (?) this year, but can they require this work to be done retrospectively even though the installation passed all the current tests? If so I shall regret giving up my registration as I'm definitely retiring this year (been saying that for 8 years now )

 

[Andy™]

when was the work originally done? regs changed in 2008, however if it was done since then (or even before if it was all RCBO's) then it most likely is still fully compliant with regs in force now. an all RCBO board is much better than dual RCD board.

since jan this year, all new boards fitted in domestic must be non combustible, i.e metal, however this is not retrospective. depending on its location, it could be marked as code 3 on an EICR, or might not be noted at all. even if it is code 3, it is still satisfactory

earthing should have been done at the time of other works, if done correctly then, it will not need anything done now.

do you have any photo's of current install? a copy of the paperwork (EIC) would be good too, along with any periodic reports that have been done

i'd be asking them exactly what regulations the wiring does not comply with and why. unless you are not giving the full details and the wiring is bad, then it sounds like they are either incompetent or trying to get more work at your expense. it also does not cost £795+ VAT per flat to change a board and upgrade earthing, thats just a rip off.

 

[ProDave]

Who is this "licencing authority" and did you give them permission to enter your properties and carry out a survey?

One of the requirements for renting a property up here is you must be able to produce a current EICR (Electrical Installation condition Report" that states the install is "satisfactory"

If you yourself are not qualified then just get an electrician who is, to do an EICR and if he marks it satisfactory then show that to the "licencing authority" and tell them there is no further work to be done.

Are you sure this really is a council communication and not a scam?

 

[leesparkykent]

I live in Thanet. I wonder who the sparks was? Sign

 

[pdthomas1952]

To reply to Andy, the work was carried out in 2013, Next time I'm over there I'll take some Pics and yes I have a full test cert carried out by a local registered electrician, having "officially" retired from electrical work in that year.

ProDave, I wish it was a scam but my letting agent tells me that they have dozens of  similar cases, apparently for selective licensing (done by Thanet council) which only applies to some parts of town, you have to let them in to inspect, now whether they are qualified electricians is another matter all together . I suspect that most Landlords who know nothing of the relevant regs,  will just choose to pay, rather than risk losing their licence.

Leesparkykent, All I can say (no names, no pack drill) is that it is a largish Electrical Contractor  in  the Birchington area. What bothers me is that this is a firm registered with the main electrical contracting council, these are the people that are meant to protect the public from the cowboys, If I had been able to charge £795 +VAT to replace a consumer unit with 5 final circuits in on a regular basis I would have been buying flats in Kensington not Cliftonville!!!

 

[pewter]

i suspect whoever looked at it did not realise they were RCBO's

the earthing you can just do yourself IF it does need doing.

What is wrong with the earthing?

I had a plumber telling me there has to be a 16mm main earth or it doesnt comply, i got the book out and corrected him.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

i suspect whoever looked at it did not realise they were RCBO's

the earthing you can just do yourself IF it does need doing.

What is wrong with the earthing?

I had a plumber telling me there has to be a 16mm main earth or it doesnt comply, i got the book out and corrected him.

Agree, they didn't know their RCBO from their LBO

 

[Andy™]

To reply to Andy, the work was carried out in 2013, Next time I'm over there I'll take some Pics and yes I have a full test cert carried out by a local registered electrician, having "officially" retired from electrical work in that year.

ProDave, I wish it was a scam but my letting agent tells me that they have dozens of  similar cases, apparently for selective licensing (done by Thanet council) which only applies to some parts of town, you have to let them in to inspect, now whether they are qualified electricians is another matter all together . I suspect that most Landlords who know nothing of the relevant regs,  will just choose to pay, rather than risk losing their licence.

Leesparkykent, All I can say (no names, no pack drill) is that it is a largish Electrical Contractor  in  the Birchington area. What bothers me is that this is a firm registered with the main electrical contracting council, these are the people that are meant to protect the public from the cowboys, If I had been able to charge £795 +VAT to replace a consumer unit with 5 final circuits in on a regular basis I would have been buying flats in Kensington not Cliftonville!!!

did they charge for this 'inspection'? did you get a choice in it? a public body cannot force you to use a specific contractor including who they appoint. if they insist the work needs done, tell them to put it in writing what needs done and why, and why the current setup is not adequate - we could do with some entertainment

I had a plumber telling me there has to be a 16mm main earth or it doesnt comply, i got the book out and corrected him.

id probably not get the book out and tell him to stick to plumbing, and maybe start making stuff up about his work and that it doesnt comply. maybe that 15mm stopcock doesnt comply, it now needs to be 22mm etc

 

[ProDave]

It might be simpler for you to get your own EICR done by an electrician of your choice. If HE says it is "satisfactory" I would like to see them argue with it.

 

[pdthomas1952]

Hi Andy,

No charge as far as I'm aware, and yes I've asked for an explanation, their initial response was about problems dating back to 2010, some 3 years before I bought these flats, and obviously before the CU upgrade and Periodic Inspection and test! So I do wonder whether they have even looked at it!!

I am awaiting some stuff from the letting agent about when and who did this inspection, we wait with baited breath

 

[pdthomas1952]

Dave, that's exactly what's happening next Tuesday,  I'll post with the results.

 

[pdthomas1952]

Well just had the periodic inspection and test results emailed through for both flats, one category 3 advisory for no isolating switch for a bathroom fan and that's it. All the results are within a whisker of the values I obtained, so why would an NiC registered electrician try to take me for £1600 +VAT? I thought these guys were the "Good Guys" supported by government agencies, and building control departments. I'm glad I'm retiring like so many other industries there is little or no integrity left, just a desire to make as much money as possible out of any body and everybody. The firm involved in this scam does a great disservice to the many honest, hard working electricians that I know are out there, but being massively let down by their umbrella organisations.

 

[Sharpend]

Well said that man! 

The majority of the country are out for what they can take in terms of money. Integrity, honesty, loyalty are terms of the few these days it would seem. 

 

[ProDave]

Well done.

I hope you are sending a copy to Thanet council and telling them where to stick their ridiculous repair estimate.

I would be inclined to also report it to trading standards an an attempted scam. That might raise a few eyebrows.

 

[Essex1]

Well said that man! 

The majority of the country are out for what they can take in terms of money. Integrity, honesty, loyalty are terms of the few these days it would seem. 

Really?  Do you charge just enough to live on or do you charge what you can and enjoy the extra money?

 

[ProDave]

Really?  Do you charge just enough to live on or do you charge what you can and enjoy the extra money?

Personally I charge what I need to make a living, which happens to be a similar hourly rate to other electricians in the area.

I don't go around making up work, quoting high prices for a job that does not actually need doing, or anything under hand like that.

I sleep well at nights.

 

[Sharpend]

Really?  Do you charge just enough to live on or do you charge what you can and enjoy the extra money?

You will realise that there is more to life than money, what will you do when the financial markets collapse and your money is worthless, don't say it won't happen as it's happened before so it can happen again. You will be unhappy as you can't enjoy life without the money? 

Have to agree with our Dave, maybe that's what maturing dies to a person? 

 

[Essex1]

Personally I charge what I need to make a living, which happens to be a similar hourly rate to other electricians in the area.

I don't go around making up work, quoting high prices for a job that does not actually need doing, or anything under hand like that.

I sleep well at nights.

And I am not for one second suggesting any member does that. 

I want to earn as much as I can but do so honestly and probably charge less than most on here. There is nothing wrong with making a profit. 

You will realise that there is more to life than money, what will you do when the financial markets collapse and your money is worthless, don't say it won't happen as it's happened before so it can happen again. You will be unhappy as you can't enjoy life without the money? 

Have to agree with our Dave, maybe that's what maturing dies to a person? 

What will be will be mate. I do not worry about what may or may not happen. Life is too short. Live for the moment. No point dieing a rich man. 

 

[NozSpark]

You're right, there's nothing wrong in making a profit,,,,, but trying to charge someone £1600 for work that isn't required is nothing short of being a con man

 

[Essex1]

You're right, there's nothing wrong in making a profit,,,,, but trying to charge someone £1600 for work that isn't required is nothing short of being a con man

That is why you do due diligence and obtain multiple quotes. If people are too lazy to search around for alternative options then clearly they have the money to simply right it off. This is what this guy done and the 'con' men are without work. Job done.