METER BOX WARNINGS FROM DNO!

[sparkytim]

Just been reviewing updated information on my local DNO site (UK POWER NETWORKS, formally EDF) and noted instructions and warnings to METER operators :

http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/products-services/networks/pdf/UK_Power_Networks_-_MOCOPA_Distribution_Business_Information.pdf

Page 19 and 20

Also usefull list of defects they want to know about on page 18

 

[Sidewinder]

KME,

According to the doc linked in the above post the Meter "fitter" on your recent summation job was not classed as competent by this DNO!!!

By the looks of things!!!

 

[Larnacaman]

Also worth taking a look at, is ...item 3.8 on page 9.

 

[Sidewinder]

Also worth taking a look at, is ...item 3.8 on page 9.

Nothing new there really mate, but well worth reiterating!

Problem is almost ALL metering operators staff are not capable of assessment to this level of detail.

The DNO staff almost certainly are however, they are not involved in this part of the connection!

 

[Larnacaman]

Nothing new there really mate, but well worth reiterating!Problem is almost ALL metering operators staff are not capable of assessment to this level of detail.

The DNO staff almost certainly are however, they are not involved in this part of the connection!

That's there problem, NOT the owners occupiers.

It states quite clearly that the meter installer MUST NOT connect to an installation that is not safe, or does not comply with BS 7671..... So NO earth connection No Supply in a situation where the DNO cannot for whatever reason provide an earthing point!!!!

Edit...

It basically proves the point i had made in other threads here. That those responsible for providing a supply to an installation, must ensure that it is safe to provide that supply..... It has always been that way, and seems it is still that way, ....at least in this DNOs area!! lol!!!

 

[Chris_81]

Problem is almost ALL metering operators staff are not capable of assessment to this level of detail.

I must be in the minority then !! I've got more qualifications than are needed to do metering but at present its the only work I can get... When we re-energise, de-energise, new connections etc the customers side is never turned on. New connections and re-energising is done through an isolator, its then left for the contractor/customers sparks to connect up their side.

For exactly the reason you've pointed out. There are six of us based in my office that do metering and I'm the only one that holds any electrical qualifications. To give you an idea just how bad it is, there are some on here who know who I work for, out of a recent assessment of 300 people only 6 of us passed. Very worrying really. Although if you knew half of what goes on there you wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Sidewinder]

Chris81,

I doubt I would be suprised to be honest!

 

[Larnacaman]

I must be in the minority then !! I've got more qualifications than are needed to do metering but at present its the only work I can get... When we re-energise, de-energise, new connections etc the customers side is never turned on. New connections and re-energising is done through an isolator, its then left for the contractor/customers sparks to connect up their side.For exactly the reason you've pointed out. There are six of us based in my office that do metering and I'm the only one that holds any electrical qualifications. To give you an idea just how bad it is, there are some on here who know who I work for, out of a recent assessment of 300 people only 6 of us passed. Very worrying really. Although if you knew half of what goes on there you wouldn't be surprised.

So, it's the duty of the company ''contractually'' to comply with the DNO requirements for these untrained meter guys to undergo training to bring them up to the requirements of their positions. Either that or employ suitably trained operatives. If that's not happening, then you and the rest of the UK electrical industry only have yourselves to blame, for letting this situation continue....

 

[sparkytim]

And just

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

And just what can WE do about it?

Its going to get alot worse with the roll out of Smart Meters from next year, recruiting and "Training" for it is under way I understand, but with what they are going to want to pay then its un-likely to attract REAL sparkys.

 

[Larnacaman]

And just---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

And just what can WE do about it?

Its going to get alot worse with the roll out of Smart Meters from next year, recruiting and "Training" for it is under way I understand, but with what they are going to want to pay then its un-likely to attract REAL sparkys.

What do you do about it??? ....I can think of several things!!! Most of those working for themselves have what you call ''scam providers'' Get those bodies involved. Those that are members of the JIB, ...same get them involved too. There is still an Electrical Union yes, then get them on the case, ....it's taking work away from skilled electricians when all said and done!! Those that are members of professional institutes should also be endeavoring to get there Institute involved too.... As a last resort, ...There's always the Media!!!!

Individually complain to the local DNO company. Come to that, How about Admin on behalf of the forum getting involved. I'm sure there are plenty of members here that can help him put something together that is suitable for the cause...

This is a serious situation, that can, and ''Will'' only get worse, if this practice of the Meter Companies using untrained operatives, is allowed to continue...

Let's face it, ...If the DNO company for Eastern and London areas has such guide lines, you can be dammed well sure, that the other area DNO companies have the same or very similar contractual clauses in there contracts with their Meter Companies.

 

[Andy™]

last year i got a SP meter changed to TP. bloke who arrived was a sparky. tested earth loop, polarity, rotation etc before connecting my tails to the new meter. complete with idiot proof marking.

cant remember exact quote, but something along the lines of 'its for the untrained monkeys who change it in a few years'

 

[wozz]

If you want sparks as meter installers, the simple fact is you will pay more one way or another.

I was trained as a SP meter installer never done the job due to the **** poor pay. But it was very easy. I dont see the problem with a semi skilled meter fitter, they are there to replace a meter not inspect the installation for compliance with 7671. Polarity is their main concern.

It seems most of your fears come from new supplies being connected, around here this is done by the EDf (or UKPN) they install supply, check certs test their stuff and seal head, all meter bloke does is install meter if there was any problems with the consumers installation the suppply would not have been installed. EDf blokes are very hot on things they dont like and usually find something to moan about.

 

[Andy™]

Wozz - problem is, even if DNO get polarity at head correct, the meter monkeys(*) cannot be trusted to ensure they get the polarity correct. with the incoming tails form head, or outgoing to DB.

* obviously doesnt apply to everyone, but even 1 is too many

 

[wozz]

i was told (dunno if this actually took place) if one installation was found to have incorrect polarity either due to incorrect termination or incorrect polarity supply that wasnt picked up every meter you installed for the last six months had to be checked as this is what suppliers rules. That could be a incredible amount of installations.

 

[batty]

Siemens who install EDF meters put a socket tester in and a label on new meter signed by householder to say that it has been checked.

 

[sprocketflup]

i was told (dunno if this actually took place) if one installation was found to have incorrect polarity either due to incorrect termination or incorrect polarity supply that wasnt picked up every meter you installed for the last six months had to be checked as this is what suppliers rules. That could be a incredible amount of installations.

I could beleive that. I worked on testing and inspecting Virgins street cabinets for a year, found one with a reversed polarity supply so reported it. Checked and double checked, polarity definately wrong.

Gets a fone call a week later "Can you go back and test that cab please, you must have made a mistake coz its polarity is correct."

They WOULD NOT admit fault, I gave up arguing in the end

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

That has got to be the best job in the world!!!?????

I worked on testing and inspecting Virgins.

:innocent :x :Salute

 

[Larnacaman]

If you want sparks as meter installers, the simple fact is you will pay more one way or another. I was trained as a SP meter installer never done the job due to the **** poor pay. But it was very easy. I don't see the problem with a semi skilled meter fitter, they are there to replace a meter not inspect the installation for compliance with 7671. Polarity is their main concern.

It seems most of your fears come from new supplies being connected, around here this is done by the EDf (or UKPN) they install supply, check certs test their stuff and seal head, all meter bloke does is install meter if there was any problems with the consumers installation the suppply would not have been installed. EDf blokes are very hot on things they dont like and usually find something to moan about.

I suggest you read that clause i pointed out again wozz. It quite ''clearly states'' that the meter installer is to check, BEFORE connecting there supply to the installation..

I have seen for myself that supply heads have often been installed in new housing estates BEFORE the electrical installation has been completed. So not much in the way of certs, or anything else to check for them!!! Not saying that the heads had been livened up at this point, but the heads were In!!

I can think of several reasons why supply meters and there connecting up, should not be left to the untrained. They are not even semi-skilled wozz, they are just cheap labour brought in by companies that are NOT fulfilling there contractual requirements to the DNO's. If the requirement is basically to sparky standard, that's the rates that should be paid.. They did, when all said and done, ...sign a contract to that effect!!! ...Right ??

 

[Andy™]

I suggest you read that clause i pointed out again wozz. It quite ''clearly states'' that the meter installer is to check, BEFORE connecting there supply to the installation..

maybe this is where the meter monkeys are going wrong....

cross polarity on socket, they connect correct, get wrong polarity by plug in meter and swap tails.

2 wrongs now make a right?

 

[Larnacaman]

That's just it, isn't it!! How do you get wrong polarity connection on a Head or the tails in the first place?? Even a complete numb nuts would check his work first, before checking elsewhere....

.