Moat pronounced dead at 2.20 am!

[Apache]

Did he even take his own life? How would we know?? 10% of the countries firearms officers in attendance and one marksman receives the order to end the whole thing. Not totally out of the realms of possibility now is it!?

It was a shotgun that went off, not a rifle.

The interesting bit would be whether he was tazered before the trigger was pulled or not. Since they would cause muscle contraction..........

:|

 

[SeánH]

Saves taxpayers money at least we won't have to feed him and keep him in prison

totally agree with you there. As far as i'm concerned. He deserved it. People like that deserve to have their lives ended, by their own means or otherwise. Saves us taxpayers a little atleast.

 

[Cirrus]

It was a shotgun that went off, not a rifle. The interesting bit would be whether he was tazered before the trigger was pulled or not. Since they would cause muscle contraction..........

:|

How do we truly know? The police let the press know only what they deem necessary and sometimes to influence opinion.....

 

[green-hornet]

I think the tax payers bill has already cost us all very dearly, and will continue to do so for perhaps another year whilst all the red tape and debates go on, including the official police complaints procedure implemented when the police failed to react to intel and failed to warn of the "possible danger".

We may have saved money in the long term 15 or 20 years, but we have paid a very high price already.

 

[Apache]

How do we truly know? The police let the press know only what they deem necessary and sometimes to influence opinion.....

I heard it on the TV! Undoubtedly a shotgun.

 

[M107]

As bizarre and contentious as this may seem, I actually feel very sorry for Moat. I worked as a professional full time doorman for many many years in some of the roughest cities / towns in our land. I have been witness to many horrors and had hands in things that only appear in films and your worst nightmares. Sadly, Moat's life was one that many professional bouncers find themselves in, me included in my dark distant past which was the stereotypical life of violence, steroids, organised crime etc. The lifestyle eventually takes a strangle hold over you and it becomes a debauched way of existing. You train to increase size, take 'gear' to increase size, which in turn does have psychological effects. You grow big, spend your life inflicting pain (both on and off the doors) and in a sick way you enjoy it - it becomes your lifeblood that you need to survive. Aggression and anger are at the forefront of your psyche and character and it doesn't take much to send you over the 'edge'. I was lucky and had a return ticket!My belief is that Moat was a good man, dillusional, angry, violent and DESPERATE. That alone is enough to try the best of us. However, in a man who treads a fine line between good and bad daily it soon becomes a reality. Now hear me before you all throw stones in my direction - I do not condone in any way shape or form what this man did. I simply understand and have empathy for a man caught in a bad situation which to be fair - most will never venture into or begin to understand. He crossed the line for sure but he wasn't mad - just had ALL the wrong buttons pushed in / out of prison.

If you don't get my meaning - watch the film 'Falling Down' with Michael Douglas - it will put everything I have written into perspective. We are all capable of the most despicable and heinous of acts - it is just that most have the ability to rationalise. Maybe he didn't or lost it somewhere along the way.

My thoughts and prayers are with everyone touched by this tragedy.

Well said sir.

Although I dont agree or condone how the muppet went about things, maybe he needed some help along the way.

Another take on it... we will have a lot of servicemen returning from fighting fields in the future, a few of whom will also have some demons to deal with....it's a narrow path as to which way you go!

 

[a1]

For what it is worth, the Armed Police aren't allowed to be told to fire, etc.

That alone, is upto the individual officer holding the gun. If he feels a threat to his/her life, or to that of the public, then he or she can shoot.

I have sympathy with ALL families and friends. Especially his Children.

It is said that the police were told by the prison service. What can they do? They can't watch him all the time and if he was determined, then he would do it at some point.

What are the circumstances of his release from prison? Was he on parole? Was his time up and then he was released? If the prison authories were really that concerned, surely they could have held him there a little longer, with an emergncy court order or something?

The case now has been handed to IPCC because there was contact between the Police and the suspect. Firstly, there was reports that officers wrestled with him. Then there was reports (and this one is confirmed by the acting Chief) that Two Taser were used on him.

Intersting point that Apache (I think it was) made. Was his hand on the trigger when the tasers made contact with him and were actually used?

Reports say that he had the gun pointed to his head for the full 6 hours. And that he let police bring him food and water.

I, like you guys, don't know what was going through this man's head. I don't know what he has been through, I don't know what was going or had been going on with respect to his ex. But he shouldn't have brought innocent people into it.

We can all speculate. The fact of the matter is that none of us know what actually went on.

 

[Badger]

well my take on it is, if the police did get an order to use tazars on moat then i think it was the right call to stun such a dangerous gunman, he took other lives and hurt very badly 2 others, which in turn should have meant he should not have been allowed to live his live with us lot paying for him in the safety of the prison, if the tazar deid cause him to shoot himself then i think it was the best outcome under the circumstances!

 

[initforthemoney]

The fact of the matter is that none of us know what actually went on.

Agreed.

But then why are so many on here glad he is dead?

 

[a1]

Agreed.But then why are so many on here glad he is dead?

Only they actually know that too. But, at a "Guess" it is because he took an innocent life and tried to take others.

The latest news now is that the IPCC are investing about the Tasers (Which we knew) and they are also investigating why they didn't act on the "information" the prison service gave to them.

 

[a1]

Naturally, he was suffering from Depression and that is a terrible illness to have. And as I said, We don't know what has happened to him in the past.

I am not making excuses for him, because there is no way that I would ever justify what he did.

The question now is... Did he commit suicide? Or was it the "Nerves" effect from the Tasers.

He showed an intention of commiting suicide as he had his sawn off shotgun pointing to his head. (Yes, it could also have been a cry for help at that point too). - But I honestly doubt that.

His Uncle was on the radio news Yesterday, claiming that his nephew was, in so many words, a Gentle Giant - and that he wasn't violent and wouldn't have fights. This may well be true.

We don't know what has gone on in his life, how long for etc. Was he taunted while he was in prison? Was he told that he would never see his children? We just don't know.

who knows, maybe the facts will come out one day? Maybe they will have been taken to the grave with him.

As I said in my previous post, my sympathy is with all of the families concerned, the Victims and even his, and especially his Children!

I have always said that if you are going to commit suicide, do not bring anyone else into it. By that I mean, don't jump in front of a train, don't hang from a tree where children play, you get the Gist. (But we have to remember if these people were in the right frame of mind, then they wouldn't be in that position in the first place).

I stress that I would never justify what he did!

That is all that I am saying on this.

 

[batty]

My take on this if you have a gun there is a good chance you may end up dead simple really. Nobody needs a gun apart from maybe farmers etc.

 

[Theorysparky]

I was watching sky news this morning and a phycologist (?) said when i person becomes cornered he becomes scared,depressed and incoherrent even though hours before he was up for killing everybody

there comes a stage when it needs to end

2.am is not too far from the sun coming up...daylight

did the police want this to be seen in daylight ????

if he was tazered them they thought it needed to end because he was becoming more unstable

so if he was tazered he may have known what was coming next and ended it himself.

Sad that society has let this guy down

i feel for any friends/relatives he had

lets not forget whats happening in London at the moment

Gangland killings/stabbings

desperate kids,,,,,,,,,devestated mums

:|

 

[Cirrus]

My take on this if you have a gun there is a good chance you may end up dead simple really. Nobody needs a gun apart from maybe farmers etc.

I disagree Batty, I own guns - shotguns and air rifles. I am trained and have fired many different types of weapons in controlled environments. Responsibility for gun ownership lies with both the individual and the authorities. As with everything, in the wrong hands they are lethal - same as a motor vehicle!

 

[Apache]

I disagree Batty, I own guns - shotguns and air rifles. I am trained and have fired many different types of weapons in controlled environments. Responsibility for gun ownership lies with both the individual and the authorities. As with everything, in the wrong hands they are lethal - same as a motor vehicle!

I am the same, quite well armed here. I'm no danger to the public. Look how many people killed by cars every year.

A huge distinction needs to be made with crimes involving legally held and crimes involving illegally held weapons. The media is really poor at making this distinction.

 

[initforthemoney]

And can i ask exactly why you need to have guns in your possession?

 

[Apache]

And can i ask exactly why you need to have guns in your possession?

1. I am a Veterinary Surgeon I use a pistol to humanely destroy animals with injuries that would render them still fit for the food chain
   
2. Sometimes a shotgun is a more appropriate weapon for this task due to the risk of a single bullet ricocheting (eg inside a building)
   
3. I enjoy clay pigeon shooting as a hobby
   
4. I have shot live game and I enjoy that too [i'd rather be a pheasant living wild than a 'free range chicken' spending a few miserable weeks mostly in a shed]
   
5. I use my air rifles for pest control (rats, rabbits and pigeons) do I not have a right to control the pests trying to eat the vegetables we are growing?
   

 

[sellers]

I agree with Cirrus on this. I felt sorry for moat, he was a desperate man. Things in his life hadn't gone to plan and he got himself into a situation with only one real outcome. His own mother said he was better off dead, doesn't that tell you something about his upbringing? No mother would say that about their son if they loved them.

Sadly moat was better off dead after he had got himself into that mess. I don't think he was a total crazed maniac. I think he was a bloke who lost himself for a brief time.

Thats just my take on things.

 

[Cirrus]

And can i ask exactly why you need to have guns in your possession?

I enjoy clay pigeon shooting as well as 'rough' shooting. I live in a rural area and have the luxury of shooting for sport and game. I also help control vermin on local land - rabbits, rats, pigeon etc..

 

[tom1]

I am the same, quite well armed here. I'm no danger to the public. Look how many people killed by cars every year.A huge distinction needs to be made with crimes involving legally held and crimes involving illegally held weapons. The media is really poor at making this distinction.

so your not a danger now but whos to say that you wont be some time down the line, if you have a gun there always a chance you may use it. not directed at you patch the likely hood is you never will but can it be said for all gun owners.