Napit and Stroma
- Thread starter Murdoch
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Stroma have just split into CPS and Energy assessor schemes for 'business resons' more money wasted rather than improving the system in my opinion.
It's interesting how much competition is around on schemes, for instance I dropped RECC for HIES - they were free for a the first year. HIES has inturn refrred me to another bunch called Flexi-Orb, who aim to replace MCS. This has saved me about £800 this year and means I can still register Solar jobs if I want to.
It's interesting how much competition is around on schemes, for instance I dropped RECC for HIES - they were free for a the first year. HIES has inturn refrred me to another bunch called Flexi-Orb, who aim to replace MCS. This has saved me about £800 this year and means I can still register Solar jobs if I want to.
I'll take that one.
I had a meeting at NAPIT HQ last week with Mike Andrews the CEO & Frank Bertie the Chief Technical Officer (Technical Director).
They were more than willing to meet to discuss the ideas that I had put to them.
They will also engage on social media.
They don't engage on here because they have their own member forums, however, there are senior figures at NAPIT that engage on other social media, Twitter, LinkedIn & Facebook for example.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
This I am aware of, but in the grand scale of Part P and the 5ww courses what are they doing to support those that took the proper route to qualification?
What are they doing to enforce part P correctly?
I was with Napit for a number of years and believed them to be better than the NICEIC, so am in favour of their approach. I am just concerned that the whole part P and the abuse of the 5ww courses isn’t being frowned upon by the schemes severely enough to make any difference?
oh and what were your ideas/suggestions?
What are they doing to enforce part P correctly?
I was with Napit for a number of years and believed them to be better than the NICEIC, so am in favour of their approach. I am just concerned that the whole part P and the abuse of the 5ww courses isn’t being frowned upon by the schemes severely enough to make any difference?
oh and what were your ideas/suggestions?
There are changes going on within NAPIT with regard to how they view and deliver training, assessments and ensuring that those registered are competent.
Our discussions centred around upskilling of the industry and individual competence, I can't say any more than that.
Our discussions centred around upskilling of the industry and individual competence, I can't say any more than that.
not sure you need to upskill so much as shut down the loopholes that allows the semi-trained to trade and operate as electricans.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
It would depend on what is classed as upskilling? Wasn’t there talk about breaking down into separate areas such as metal crunchers, cable pullers, etc?
Apparently it is difficult to shut the individual down once they have been registered once with a scam, so they need to be trained up to be competent.
However, yes, it would be better if they cannot get registered as competent when they are still training.
That came from another scheme provider, and I do not believe that it is part of the way that NAPIT sees the industry going, however, some individuals and companies choose to specialise like this, and, there is a market for that.
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
This is exactly why there should only be one registration body, fail to comply means fail to register, however that will not shut the individual down per se, that would need some improvement in the laws of the land!
But by only having one registration body would stop the jumping from scheme to scheme, because let’s face it, what one scheme deems unacceptable doesn’t equate to other schemes deeming the same.
I agree that Napit perhaps has a better industry stance than the other side, however if the other side start to implement this breakdown and given as you say there is a market for it then it will do nothing but to give more reason to devalue our trade in a similar way that the JIB and Unite union have devalued our trade on a monetary aspect by holding the wage rate low, not recognising the technical hoops that are laid before us compared to other trades who have little technical requirement yet are on a similar wage structure? Remember not everyone is classed as a specialist, many more are classed as a ‘normal’ spark in the industry.
OK dealing with the already registered may be hard, but stopping any more entering the market has to be a place to start? I say this bearing in mind I am a 5WW myself who took full advantage of the loopholes, albeit that was 14 years ago, and I had previously completed an Aerospace standard Electrical / Mechanical Technician apprenticeship - I probably understand technical stuff better than most sparks I've encountered, but my cable tray work is still a bit rubbish as I hardly ever do that work.
With regards to those already registered, it would be useful if the schemes accepted evidence of mal-practice from other electricians, and not just customer complaints. I and a few other local electricans, had strong evidence, in writing, of total incompetence in testing by a certain company and presented said evidence on several occasions to the NICEIC - we all got told they couldn't do anything becuse we're not the customer. Now I appreciate some of these complaints could just be 'sour grapes' from one business to another, and there will always be differences of opinion in interpretation of BS7671, but that many complaints from that many others has to be worth investigating? Failure to do so just leaves other contractors more willing to cut corners themselves and undermines the whole 'standards' argument. I'm also a believer that if caught seriously ignoring regs the punishment should be permanent disqualification from practising as an electrican - same as Social Workers and other professions.
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That’s what I’ve being saying for years. America for once got it right, electricians have to be licensed to trade. They also have JHA’s (Jurisdiction Having Authority) that inspect work to ensure it’s up to NFPA-NEC standards. BC with teeth
What this SparkSafe licence is supposed to be I don’t know. Looking at their website it looks like yet another rip off.
Working in industry I’d expect the company to stump up any fees for a licence if they are legally required.
I think that you will find that NAPIT will investigate complaints from other electricians, if you can provide the information they require, which will need you to liaise with the customer, but, I think that they will investigate, which is more than the NICEIC will do.
I have heard that there is supposed to be some means of monitoring people who jump from scheme to scheme after being thrown out for bad workmanship, but, I don't know how that works.
I have heard that there is supposed to be some means of monitoring people who jump from scheme to scheme after being thrown out for bad workmanship, but, I don't know how that works.
Problems start when its bob the builder doing the electrics and there is no paper trail.
What I see the most is "notified work" but the homeowner doesn't have any electrical certificates ....
I agree with that, but how do we stop the totally "unqualified"
Also if the home owner gets no paperwork they may well not expect it, as most don't know that they should be getting anything!
I agree with that.
I spent 15 minutes one day last week explaining to a client what BS 7671 was, the fact its now the 18th edition and why her new bathroom lights meant she needed a RCBO ............ I wasn't helped by the bathroom fitter who tried to tell her not to bother with the regs ...................
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
you see you both have hit nail on the head, the whole system is flawed from the start. Customers generally don't know about our regs and the requirements of electricians, so don't know what to ask on first enquiry. The chancers are aware of this so take the chance, the honest electrician is seen as the con artist - always trying it on with this non compliance etc. the schemes do not sound as one voice and spend more time defending their own badge, rather than the honest electrician. If the govt were serious about Part P then they would have one govt department responsible for the implementation and registration, not rely on the self promoting schemes, Electricians would be individually registered, unqualified would be dealt more severely through the legal system for practicing without licence. This would then educate the Public in being careful who they choose, the chancers would stick to what they know and the genuine electricians would earn a respectable wage?
This highlights a never ending problem in this trade , yet the world is full of builders , kitchen fitters , DIYers , plumbers etc who all know much better than a sparks who has to work to an ever changing set of rules that no one else cares about , " Can't you just replace my bathroom lights without all this fuss , bloke darn the battle cruiser says it easy . "
I didn’t know you were a Bob lol.
So did she or did she not bother with the regs?
I find comments that customers can relate to help, like for the above, 'why bother with a seat-belt then?'
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