new light switch problem

[rawsox]

ive just upgraded my light switches from plastic to chrome. the single way ones were easy to do, but im completely confused over the 2 way double switch ones.

The plastic ones had the same COMMON L1 L2 COMMON L1 L2 as the new ones ive got, but there are so many wires i dont know what colours go where to make the upstairs light go on and the downstairs too, i get one or the other lol.

Right, i know this is a shot in the dark (no pun intended) but im going to list the wires i have (1970s council house) for the upstairs 2 way.

3 Grey insulators 2 going down, one up.

The grey up-has a green (earth), red and black.

The first grey down-has green (earth), yellow (common??), red, light blue.

2nd grey down-has earth (green), yellow (common??), red and dark blue.

The new switches are set up like this.

Common Common

L1 L2 L1 L2

How do they configure?? any help would be good. Also would the downstairs and up stairs be the same configuration??

Also just to confuse everyone i have a third downstairs double switch, with 2 yellow, 2 red and 2 blue and a green, but this has only ever had a single switch, with a double connector on the back. weird.

cheers new post newbie:Salute

 

[Sidewinder]

rawsox,

There is no "standard" colour code really it will depend on how the original spark wired it.

You heed to put them back "in the same holes" as it were!

i.e. that which came from the common on switch 1 needs to go back there, same with the L1, L2 etc.

 

[Bacon]

ive just upgraded my light switches from plastic to chrome. the single way ones were easy to do, but im completely confused over the 2 way double switch ones.The plastic ones had the same COMMON L1 L2 COMMON L1 L2 as the new ones ive got, but there are so many wires i dont know what colours go where to make the upstairs light go on and the downstairs too, i get one or the other lol.

Right, i know this is a shot in the dark (no pun intended) but im going to list the wires i have (1970s council house) for the upstairs 2 way.

3 Grey insulators 2 going down, one up.

The grey up-has a green (earth), red and black.(1 WAY)

The first grey down-has green (earth), yellow (common??), red, light blue.(switch 1 2way which colour cables goes to the common?find that then the other 2 will go L1 L2)2nd grey down-has earth (green), yellow (common??), red and dark blue.

(Switch2 2 way which colour goes to light fitting? the other 2 go L1 L2The new switches are set up like this.

Common Common

L1 L2 L1 L2

How do they configure?? any help would be good. Also would the downstairs and up stairs be the same configuration??

Also just to confuse everyone i have a third downstairs double switch, with 2 yellow, 2 red and 2 blue and a green, but this has only ever had a single switch, with a double connector on the back. weird.

cheers new post newbie:Salute

Have you any type of test equipment to hand with which you could ring out the downsatirs lighting cables from switch 1 to the upstairs lighting cables for switch 2.

Also when you bought the new switches there is usally a drawing of all the circuits in a house including the 2way lighting circuit,But not all lighting circuits are wired like those drawings,So proceed with CAUTION.

 

[m4tty]

Best thing to do would have been to write down on paper which wires go where before disconnecting. Tis what I do.

Have you done one switch at a time, meaning the other end of the two way switch is still connected. Check what colour wires go in which terminal and match the strappers (3 core and earth) cables in same holes each end then see what your left with. At least you'll have less wires to work out.

 

[Evans Electric]

Is the 2 gang switch you describe , upstairs or downstairs and were there any connectors in the box ?

The third one you mention could be an intermediate with strappers and a L, S/W or N in a connector .

If you are not a sparks you may have a cock- up on your hands .

Can you also tell us what switches control what lights . ( Don't worry about the earths ( Green or Green/yellow stripes) , we'll sort them out later .

 

[rawsox]

i unplugged the old switch and put the same wires into the same holes, but it doesnt seem to want to work. will the upstairs be the same as downstairs (connection) i dont understand why there is 3 grey connections, when its only a 2 way gang! really odd

 

[Andy™]

pics

 

[Evans Electric]

Pics . Your 2way gang is a 2gang 2way so there are 6 connections to be sorted plus some by-passing the switch possibly , we need to know if they are both 2 way circuits or is the one just a 1 way ( to the hall ?? )

So is the 2g upstairs or downstairs ?

 

[rawsox]

right, as im not too technical with electrics please bare with me.

The wiring matches hall light and landing, my connection is as follows,

from the downstairs you can turn the landing lights on, and with a seperate switch (on the same square plastic base) turn the hall on, 2 swithces on one plastic base, the landing is identical, you can turn the landing on or off from down stairs or upstairs and the same with the hall light.

Thats basically all i know lol. sorry

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

i unplugged the old switch and put the same wires into the same holes, but it doesnt seem to want to work. will the upstairs be the same as downstairs (connection) i dont understand why there is 3 grey connections, when its only a 2 way gang! really odd

Hello rawsox..

first of all..

If you had done an exact like for like swap it would still be working ok..

But obviously somewhere along route you have got some of the wires swapped over..

Next:- Bit of Hindsight rule for the next time you swap any electrical items over..

Take a photograph of the connections before you undo any wires..

Now to put things into context as has been mentioned already

There is NO standard method to wire up lights..

they can be configured in numerous ways dependant upon how the original electrical felt was best..

You need to be aware that the permanent supply from the fuse box has to make its way around the circuit between the various lights and switches, so some of your cables May be just live supplies in & out dependent upon if the wiring has been Looped at switches, looped at lights, looped in junction boxes under the floor etc...

Were any wires joined into separate connector block screw terminals not part of the light switch?

Or did EVERY connection go somewhere onto the old switch?

Can you take any photographs of your switches & wires and load them so we can have a look..

Picture is worth 1000 words as they say?

 

[Badger]

without sounding rude, i think you really need to get a qualified spark to sort this, as you dont seem to have a general idea what to do to put it right, and the more times you mess with different configurations the more chance there is of some one getting badly hurt, i would really suggest getting a spark to sort this problem as you really dont have a cat in hells chance of doing this without any testing equipment to hand. im sorry but thats my opinion

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Another few very serious words of caution..

1/ DO NOT ASSUME red wires are live and black wires are neutral..

2/ It is possible that EVERY wire in your switch is or can be a live wire with NO neutrals at all

3/ Also if a DIY person has done changes in the past it has been known for wrong colours to be used .. e.g. Black live, Red neutral!!! :_|

which just confuses the matter even more..

4/ You may have power from two separate circuits at the switches, (upstairs & downstairs lights.. ) Do you know how many light circuits you have at your fuse box?

5/ It is also possible that there ARE neutrals at the switch, and if you join the wrong wires together the fuse will just go BANG! when you switch it on.

As Badger suggests, I would think you are going to need some sort of basic continuity or voltage tester to correctly identify which wires are the live or not..

Do you have access to any test gear?

 

[Evans Electric]

OK, we now know that the landing light is 2w switched and the hall is 2w switched , so is the switch you described upstairs or down ?

 

[ProDave]

without sounding rude, i think you really need to get a qualified spark to sort this, as you dont seem to have a general idea what to do to put it right, and the more times you mess with different configurations the more chance there is of some one getting badly hurt, i would really suggest getting a spark to sort this problem as you really dont have a cat in hells chance of doing this without any testing equipment to hand. im sorry but thats my opinion

I'll second that.

Phone a local sparky, if you can find one who can call in on his way home one day it shouldn't cost much and he will sort it out in probably no more than 5 minutes.

Otherwise I can see you trying different permeations all night without luck.

If you really must sort it yourself, try this, the most common way to wire 2 way switching:

Connect the 3 coloured cable to each switch (upstairs and downstairs) the same way. It doesn't usually matter which colour goes to which terminal, as long as the same colour goes to the same terminal at both ends of the 2 way link, but if you want a suggestion as to which colour to use, try red to L1, Blue to L2 and yellow to common.

Then at the switch that has two wires, connect the two core red / black cable Red to L1 and and black to L2 on the switch, this will be in addition to the two wires you have fitted into these terminals in the above step.

You mention THREE wires in your description. If this is the case I am assuming this is a 2 gang switch (2 switches on the same face plate) If this is the case, then one switch will be wired just with a 3 core cable as I have described, and the other switch will be wired with a 3 core and a 2 core cable as I have described. BUT your difficulty will be determining which 3 core also connects to a 2 core. In this case leave the 2 core disconnected to start with, and insulate the 2 wires of the 2 core cable to make them safe. Then try it. One switch will work, the other won't do anything. It is the switch that won't do anything that then needs the 2 core connecting to it as well.

Assuming you have just changed the one switch plate and it stopped working, then you should be able to go and look at one of the other, untouched switches that is the other end of the 2 way switching circuit to determine the colour coding used for the 3 core cable in your house, and use that in preference to the colour coding I suggested.

If that does not make sense, don't try it, call a sparky.

 

[rawsox]

right ive got a plan, lol.

Im going to connect yellow to common and red to L1 blue to L2 downstairs and upstairs, the lighter blue wire will help me determine which of the two switches on the plate it corresponds too, e.g if its the left switch, copy that to the downstairs on. therefor i will have a connection from downstairs to upstairs. then its the black and other red i will play about with as these are a 1 way connection to the upstairs light. am i correct? failing that, ask my neighbour to borrow his connection (open up his switch from the wall and peek at it and match it)

 

[Andy™]

right ive got a plan, lol. Im going to connect yellow to common and red to L1 blue to L2 downstairs and upstairs, the lighter blue wire will help me determine which of the two switches on the plate it corresponds too, e.g if its the left switch, copy that to the downstairs on. therefor i will have a connection from downstairs to upstairs. then its the black and other red i will play about with as these are a 1 way connection to the upstairs light. am i correct? failing that, ask my neighbour to borrow his connection (open up his switch from the wall and peek at it and match it)

maybe you should accept the fact you ****ed up and get someone in who knows what they are doing. you obviously have no idea. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

if you had the basic tools a sparky does you would have all cables identified within minutes. or, they may have enough experience/knowledge to know what goes where just by looking

and what if your neighbour's wiring is done differently?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

right ive got a plan, lol. Im going to connect yellow to common and red to L1 blue to L2 downstairs and upstairs, the lighter blue wire will help me determine which of the two switches on the plate it corresponds too, e.g if its the left switch, copy that to the downstairs on. therefor i will have a connection from downstairs to upstairs. then its the black and other red i will play about with as these are a 1 way connection to the upstairs light. am i correct? failing that, ask my neighbour to borrow his connection (open up his switch from the wall and peek at it and match it)

You last suggestion will prove nothing.

Its about as much use as me looking in my neighbors bookshelf to see if their books are in the same order as our bookshelf!

Please re-read earlier posts.

THERE IS NO STANDARD WAY TO WIRE LIGHTS!!!

The colours could be completely different.

you need to ignore anyone else's house and just prove which wires are which in your own wiring!

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

A better plan would be to stop..

Re -read ALL of the earlier posts..

you have been given some exceptionally good advice..

some questions have been asked which you haven't answered..

so the help you are asking for is becoming a little difficult.

:|

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 20:40 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Your logic seriously is as daft as me looking in my fridge to see if Andy has enough milk left! :C :_| headbang

 

[Badger]

You last suggestion will prove nothing.Its about as much use as me looking in my neighbors bookshelf to see if their books are in the same order as our bookshelf!

Please re-read earlier posts.

THERE IS NO STANDARD WAY TO WIRE LIGHTS!!!

The colours could be completely different.

you need to ignore anyone else's house and just prove which wires are which in your own wiring!

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

A better plan would be to stop..

Re -read ALL of the earlier posts..

you have been given some exceptionally good advice..

some questions have been asked which you haven't answered..

so the help you are asking for is becoming a little difficult.

:|

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 20:40 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Your logic seriously is as daft as me looking in my fridge to see if Andy has enough milk left! :C :_| headbang

actually i looked in the pantry early and thought youd like to know specs that you need to do the shopping at tescos as your low on eggs, oil and tinned tuna :^O :^O:^O

 

[Andy™]

actually i looked in the pantry early and thought youd like to know specs that you need to do the shopping at tescos as your low on eggs, oil and tinned tuna :^O :^O:^O

tesco?! so where did all the Adsa smart price stuff in his fridge come from?!

 

[Badger]

[quote name='Andy