New RCD necessary?

[katy1980]

After reading your comments I think it's fair for me to argue he's not done enough digging to warrant a new board. Yes, the board probably needs updating but it doesn't look like it's the issue at hand. To warrant a new RCD when not even checked the element seems alien to me. The RCD does not trip when other appliences are on.

If the RCD switches off a few minutes after the oven is switched on then perhaps the element fails when it hits a certain temp - or perhaps the cooling fan kicks in and a fault in that causes the issue? (again, ideas being pulled out of thing air as I've no idea!) So I'm thinking I should go to Bosch and get it sorted under warranty. The only worry now, is if it is not an oven fault and is faulty wiring then I'll be back at square one and will have to pay Bosch an inflated call out fee since the error won't be on their part..... EEK!

I'm going to go out and buy food for my aunt that doesn't need an oven to be cooked! (you're spot on re: hob, kettle, microwave so sod it!)

Again, many thanks. You may have saved me an ugly bill just before my holidays!

I feel terrible cancelling at short notice (something I'd never do usually) - but considering you have smelt BS I think this guy might just be reaping what he's sewn....

 

[katy1980]

P.S. Anyone know a reputable electrician based in Huddersfield for future reference?

 

[binky]

Hmmm, it sounds like other appliances are causing the issues to me, it's just when you switch the cooker on it adds to the total earth leakage the RCD is seeing and trips. The power outage no doubt then powers down some other appliance allowing you to re-set the RCD. Other than that your electrician is talking rubbish. I would recommend changing the board, to get rid of the single RCD for the entire property. My preference is to fit RCBOs, which combine an RCD and Circuit Breaker in 1 unit, so basically you have 1 RCD per circuit. It costs a bit more in parts, but the net result is a much more reliable system

 

[katy1980]

I found this - which would make sense (considering ours cuts out after a minute or two - so as it gets hotter) - but would that explain why it works ok after power turned back on...? I got it from the internet on an article called 3 Reasons Why Your Oven Keeps Tripping Electrics

 

[Sharpend]

Which whilst is wise advice it doesn't necessarily resolve this issue so could be wise to do at a later date? 

Although having said that if it is caused via an accumulation of earth leakage then it may be the only sensible answer. But it will need further testing prior to any such move. 

 

[Andy™]

yep, insulation faults tend to happen more at higher temperatures, and whilst cold can be way above min levels and dont show as a fault. warm them up and you get completely different readings

 

[binky]

had that issue myself many years ago, I could nurse the grill on and eventually turn it up full after it had warmed up, but the ultimate result is that I had to change the grill element. There is a simple thing you could try Katy. Switch of all the circuits bar the oven (and the RCD) and turn it on. If it trips in the same way as you have been experiencing then its a fault with the oven ( or the oven circuit). If it's all hunky dory, then it is most likley the cumaltive effect of several appliances and the cooker just finishes the RCD off.

 

[katy1980]

Arrrgh! I've tried what you suggested (thanks very much for the guidance - much appreciated) and it DID NOT trip! So perhaps we DO have a faulty RCD? So do I stick to the original plan and let the electrician replace the whole thing then? Do I cancel my Bosch appointment which was covered under the warranty since they'll charge me a ridiculous fee if it's not their fault?

 

[Murdoch]

Out of interest how long was he fault finding for? how much did he charge and how much detail was on his invoice?

 

[katy1980]

Pretty vague info to be honest. He was here for 4 hours - he fit 3 isolator switches at the same time (hob, oven and fridge as they were non existant which I discovered was illegal. :/ Our previous house owners have a lot ot answer for!). His labour is £15 an hour which I believe is cheap (I know cheap certainly does not mean good but he was recommended by our joiner who's a good friend). He charged £90 (so £30 for parts). Part of me is thinking I should let him go ahead and do the job tomorrow...?

 

[Murdoch]

Pretty vague info to be honest. He was here for 4 hours - he fit 3 isolator switches at the same time (hob, oven and fridge as they were non existent which I discovered was illegal. :/ Our previous house owners have a lot ot answer for!). His labour is £15 an hour which I believe is cheap (I know cheap certainly does not mean good but he was recommended by our joiner who's a good friend). He charged £90 (so £30 for parts). Part of me is thinking I should let him go ahead and do the job tomorrow...?

Illegal ?

If you decide to let him proceed, please establish how he is going to notify LABD (Part P) and make sure he is going to complete an EIC and test ALL the current circuits......

 

[Andy™]

its not illegal not to have isolators. 7671 (wiring regs) are not law so even going against them is not illegal. sounds like a cowboy. did he leave his horse outside whilst doing the job?

 

[Essex1]

"BS7671 is not legally binding". You know what the OP means. 

Remember you are talking with a person that is not electrically competent. 

 

[katy1980]

Arrrgh..... (hangs head in shame and blushes). He told me it was illegal to not have isolators - I feel like such a pleb now! To be honest - he did seem to want to point out as many negatives as he could "those spots in the kitchen should be replaced for LEDs" (which is a fair/good point to make) - but he kept pointing out lots more little niggles - a little over the top.... (why didn't my electrican friend ever point these things out if they were real issues? By the way, he's in Blackpool hence why I cannot use him instead!)

When he messaged re: doing the isolators and fixing the cooker fault he put "I can price up for changing those spots in the kitchen and diner too. Also might be worth looking at upgrading your fuse board". I asked how much for fuse board then politely declined as I didn't want to spend that much unless it was really necessary. But when he came to fix cooker he couldn't fix it hence the apparent need for new board. Granted he did do some testing though and says the board can't take much power/ is leaking earth. BUT he's messaged me since to say he can't be sure that will fix the issue. I don't want to pay £380 for somthing that might not fix the issue - when he's not even checked the element - that seems insane to me - or am I missing something here? I don't want to be too judgemental as he could have just tyring to be helpful - but I wonder if he has pushed for the expensive job more than he should.... God I feel awful saying that as it's so unfair if I'm wrong. Sorry if I sound too untrusting, there's no "man of the house" and I've been ripped off by a few grand lately so I'm treading on eggshells with tradesmen at the moment (I've had three rogues in the last 3 months - a handy man, a decorator and a carpet fitter plus a few other smaller duff jobs) I've moved cities so need to find myself some reliable tradesmen!
 

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Can you tell us the ratings of the oven/grill. If you open the door  there will  be a label with figures on? In the opening. What is the figure in W(watts) or Kw (kilowatts) ?

The make of consumer unit you have is Square D. It is a very good make & one of the more expensive types. The 2 right hand breakers are  the wrong types, one rcd is not allowed now on new jobs( or replacements) to help avoid loosing all the electric in a fault.

Also plastic boards like yours may not be allowed on new or replacement boards (is your garage attached to to the house).

It seems to me it is the oven causing the problem but more tests needed. A replacement board will probably be only a bit more than replacing the Square D parts. £400 is a fair price but that must include an installation certificate and a Part P  building regs cert. However  although good is not really needed right now

 

[Andy™]

you want to find someone else then. yes, LED's are a good idea, but they dont need to be changed unless you want them to, not because he wants to do it

 

[Murdoch]

I would suggest you find a 2nd opinion BEFORE you part with any money.

 

[katy1980]

Can you tell us the ratings of the oven/grill. If you open the door  there will  be a label with figures on? In the opening. What is the figure in W(watts) or Kw (kilowatts) ?

The make of consumer unit you have is Square D. It is a very good make & one of the more expensive types. The 2 right hand breakers are  the wrong types, one rcd is not allowed now on new jobs( or replacements) to help avoid loosing all the electric in a fault.

Also plastic boards like yours may not be allowed on new or replacement boards (is your garage attached to to the house).

It seems to me it is the oven causing the problem but more tests needed. A replacement board will probably be only a bit more than replacing the Square D parts. £400 is a fair price but that must include an installation certificate and a Part P  building regs cert. However  although good is not really needed right now

Thanks, that's very useful info. Oven is 4.2kw. Hope that helps? Also the garage is attached to the house - but quite far away from the kitchen. Do you think I should just go with the Bosch warranty appointment then (free if it's the oven's fault, but will charge me if it's dodgy electrics)? Then cancel the electrician tomorrow explaining that I think it's only right I get the element (and any other possible faults) looked at before I fork out for a new board (lets be fair - he should have checked element etc it in those 4 hours he was here! - He had the cooker pulled out to fit the isolators so don't understand what he was thinking!)

Before he came to fix oven (intention was to change the oven circuit hoping to fix it that way) and fit isolators - he said he was having trouble getting a correct circuit (the circuits in there now are the ones that have always been there - they are not anything he's added) - so dare I say.... Could he not get hold of them - so is trying for a whole board instead? (since his £15 an hour changes to £380 for half a days work as it is more "specialist")

Again, I know I shouldn't be judging as I don't even really know what I'm talking about. Please forgive my naivety.

 

[Andy™]

i would cancel him and not let him in the house again

 

[katy1980]

Thanks everyone.

I'll let Bosch still visit since it's under warranty. And if they say it's not an issue with the oven, then yes I'll have to give them £100(ish) but perhaps they'll at least know what the REAL issue is and I'll take if from there/get it fixed from someone who's not "guessing" what the problem is (which coincidentally was the most expensive "possible" solution going with this guy!) I'll let you know how it goes.