Newbie

[Brian Hutchings]

Hello, I'm from Alfreton in Derbyshire and am not an electrician but a model engineer with a small workshop with lathe, milling machine and the usual collection of electrical hand tools. Due to increasing years and a house move I've had to downsize from larger (and heavier) 3ph equipment which I found to be a lot easier, electrically, than my present 1ph setup.

I'm hoping to learn something about how to wire machines safely.

 

[steptoe]

we like lathes and milling machines here,  

hopefully we will get a blacksmith along sometime so @apprentice87 can hero worship,  

 

[apprentice87]

****** off!!!!!!

We do like millers shapers lathes drills welders etc here though. Along with motorbikes and other contrivances..

What exactly, do you want to know about electrical thingys??

john..

 

[steptoe]

:slap

 

[Brian Hutchings]

****** off!!!!!!

We do like millers shapers lathes drills welders etc here though. Along with motorbikes and other contrivances..

What exactly, do you want to know about electrical thingys??

john..

I have a Boxford lathe that had just a MEM NVR switch to turn it on and off. Sometimes it is handy to be able to run in reverse and I have had a coolant pump for 14 years but never wired it in so I decided to add a forward/reverse switch and a coolant switch.

I received lots of help from a couple of experts on the Model Engineering site and managed to get everything working for a couple of weeks. Then one morning I pressed the start button and....nothing. I stripped the MEM NVR unit down and found that the main body had broken in two with evidence of some kind of glue so it had obviously been broken for some time as I've had the lathe for 14 years.

I bought a new NVR unit from Axminster Tools because it had waterproof on/off butttons, an emergency stop and provision for wiring in the existing microswitches on two access doors but it had no overload facility.

Here's where it started to go wrong because I bought an overload unit from Screwfix, not realising that it was a type with 3 pins that would normally plug in tp the NVR, but my NVR has no facility for this. I'm debating whether to abandon this idea and get something as a unit that is compatible but I wonder if there is another (cheaper) way out.

(Almost) any suggestions welcome.

 

[steptoe]

Well,

I'm not even going to bother giving you a solution, because there are a lot more better qualified guys on here that will give you a better/safer/simpler/cheaper option than I could offer,

I'll tag @apprentice87 again, he has probably already done this with his thingymabobs already ,,,,,,

 

[Tony S]

Looks like you've managed the impossible

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=92660&p=2

(I've been wondering where Barmy Bill was hiding)  ]

 

[steptoe]

Looks like you've managed the impossible

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=92660&p=2

(I've been wondering where Barmy Bill was hiding)  ]

 

[roys]

So do you now have single phase or 3 phase motors on your machines, if you removed your 3 phase motors I would refit them and get yourself in contact with a company called Drives Direct they will supply units that will covert your single to 3 phase, give you variable speed control and reversing as well as your overload protection.

3 phase motors are much better / smoother on your machines.

i fitted a Drives Direct converter onto my Colchester Master Mk1 1/2 works a treat.

(www.drivesdirect.co.uk) I believe is their website.

 

[Brian Hutchings]

So do you now have single phase or 3 phase motors on your machines, if you removed your 3 phase motors I would refit them and get yourself in contact with a company called Drives Direct they will supply units that will covert your single to 3 phase, give you variable speed control and reversing as well as your overload protection.

3 phase motors are much better / smoother on your machines.

i fitted a Drives Direct converter onto my Colchester Master Mk1 1/2 works a treat.

(www.drivesdirect.co.uk) I believe is their website.

The lathe motor is single phase as bought second hand with the lathe a few years ago. It must have been 3ph at one time but had a 'new' 1 ph motor and switchgear added before I got it but it was wired so that the MEM NVR was the sole means of stopping and starting.

I agree with you entirely about 3ph, I used to have a 3ph workshop and was quite happy to do my own wiring on machines but I find 1ph very difficult to understand. Without the help from people on the Model Engineer site, I think I would have given up, but I have now dug myself into a hole and could do with a ladder or 2!

 

[roys]

Brian why don't you just fit a new DOL starter something like eBay item 331229135855, when you go to that item there is a couple of drop down menu one to select 230 or 415 V coils, select 230V for single phase and the other drop down to select the Full Load Current of your motor, so that they can fit the correct overload.  Think it is about £30, gives you start stop and overload protection and is pre wired.

 

[Brian Hutchings]

Brian why don't you just fit a new DOL starter something like eBay item 331229135855, when you go to that item there is a couple of drop down menu one to select 230 or 415 V coils, select 230V for single phase and the other drop down to select the Full Load Current of your motor, so that they can fit the correct overload.  Think it is about £30, gives you start stop and overload protection and is pre wired.

Thanks Roys, unless something crops up, that's the way I'm thinking of going but using this company which is about 3 miles from me. http://www.m-and-r-controls.co.uk/

Brian

 

[apprentice87]

Ok..

First off, i would be a bit careful arranging to be able to reverse the lathe.. I am well aware why you might want to, but i am also well aware that the boxford lathe has a screwed on chuck.. What if when you reverse it the thing unscrews and then drops onto your lathe bed [terrible] or onto your person [I would rather the chuck fall on me than my lathe!!]

I would not buy stuff from the likes of screwfix or axminster as it will all be chinese lettuced. Use standard components.. Arranging to reverse a single phase motor is not something i could arrange off the "top of my head" but it is do-able, i think you swap around the connections to the start winding, it will say inside the motor terminal box anyway.

I would suppose the easiest way to do it, would be a standard rotary reversing switch, like the thing the lathe would have had when it was made [Craig and Derricot??] but feed it all through a contactor to give you your NVR. You would still have the original operating controls the lathe was intended to have then, and not have to mess it about from standard..

I have not re-wired many machines, but i will post some photos of things i have done!! They might be "correct" and then again, they might not, so feel free to comment and laugh!!

I should add at this point that due to my aspergers, i do like straight lines and DIN rail connectors!!

First one is my steam cleaner...

Here is how the wiring was...

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Could not be having that mess!!!!!!!

So i tidied it up a bit!!!!

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Next one is an Elliot shaper i am slowly doing up..

I wanted to but the original motor back on it, and i found one on ebay!!

Here it is!!!

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I fitted it to the machine..

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I made a control box for it too. i made it nice and handy to reach with "Start" "Stop" "Jog" and an emergency stop that stops the lot..

Here it it..

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All standard internals...

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I fitted the workings in a enclosure on the side of the thing... I used an appliance inlet too, so if i want i can remove the feed cable while i sweep up round the thing if i want to.

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Here are the internals of the enclosure..

I used two contactors, one for normal running, and the other purely for "jogging" Oh, and there is a rotary isolator too, so i can isolate the thing while i clean and oil the machine. [never did want to be mangled in a shaper..]

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And it is all screwwed to the side with a nice bit of conduit!!

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Looks good to me!! Just got to sort the feed mechanism and repaint the entire machine.. It will outlive me then!!

john...

 

[Brian Hutchings]

Looks very good and with neat wiring, I'm envious!

 

[apprentice87]

I just sat and thought. Hmmmmmm.. How can i get this to work!!!

The steamer was the hardest by a mile as i did not have any wiring diagram of how it should be. First task was to draw my own and figure out how it worked. Then i listed all the terminals on all the "bits" and decided which ones were "common" and which ones had to be linked, or switched, and by what, and when.!!

Assuming you still have the reversing switch and have figured out how to wire it all you need is an ordinary motor starter as the others have said. This will give you the NVR function, and will also be compatible with the microswitches, just wire them in series with the coil, so open a door and the machine will not start, or if it is running it will stop.

Contactors [like in the motor starter] are easy to wire, just sit and worry about it for a bit, and work out what current you want to go where, and when, and you will soon suss it out!!

john..