NICEIC initial assessment

[callumf]

hi all,

  just quick question, The company I work for is joining the nic and we have our first assessment visit next week, on the handout that they send you it has a checklist including health and safety documents, insurance etc. On this list it requests a sample of electrical installation certificates since last assessment, now as this is our first assessment we do not have any existing certificates as we have always sub contracted someone to come a certify our work. Has anyone else been in this position and know whether it was an issue with the NIC or not?

Can I just add that the majority of the work we do as a company is servicing and maintenance which doesn't involve any notifiable work but we are picking up more install work hence the decision the join the NIC and start to certificate our own work.

Cheers

 

[Blue Duck]

Just a minor technicality I guess, they will want to see some NIC branded certs but as this is a first assessment they should be okay with this.

Don't forget the biscuits! 

 

[callumf]

Thanks for the reply, yea I figured I would just have to wait and see what the assessor said was hoping someone on here might have been in the same position in the past. Biscuit tin is full to the brim!!

 

[Doc Hudson]

Just a minor technicality I guess, they will want to see some NIC branded certs but as this is a first assessment they should be okay with this.

Don't forget the biscuits! 

There is no obligation to have to use NIC branded paperwork, providing it is fully compatible with the model forms given in BS7671. However I would have thought you should have some sort of certificate giving your test readings on work you have done. Otherwise how can they look at a sample of your jobs?  If I were you I would ring the NICEIC to verify what you are proposing is acceptable. Otherwise you could end up with a second assessment visit charge as the assessor was unable to verify your competence on your first appointment.

Doc H.  

 

[Blue Duck]

Thanks Doc, I should have written they would like to see NIC branded documents. 

And any 'records of testing should be available. 

I do mainly maintenance but still issue MWC's for cooker installs etc.

 

[Risteard]

If you haven't been certifying your work then this is a serious breach of BS7671 and absolutely will not and cannot be acceptable to the NICEIC.

 

[callumf]

We already have to have second assessment visit planned as the nature of our work means that our head office where the initial assessment is being carried out is almost 250 miles from the site that we have our installation going on at the moment. We install Industrial wood waste and biomass boilers so an install can take anything up to 4 or 5 months. In the past we have had an NICEIC registered contractor sign the work off for us for which we have copies, I will just have the copies of the certificates ready and see where the inspector takes it from there, cheers for the help

 

[callumf]

I think the issue here is that as a company we may only install 1 or 2  boilers per year and the rest of our work will involve servicing and maintenance for which we don't do any notifiable electrical work, now for a company to only have say one installation per year but still we wish to be a member of the NIC how does this stand with the NIC? I realise it may be an issue that has ever been covered by this forum before.

 

[phil d]

So long as the cheque clears you'll be fine! There was a guy on her recently who'd been asked by his scheme to go around to his neighbour with his MFT, as he (the neighbour) was having an assessment but did not possess an MFT  or individual meters, he was going to buy them when he'd done a few jobs and earned some money if I remember correctly! How can you test and sign off a job correctly if you don't possess the correct test gear?

 

[callumf]

haha that's bloody ridiculous!!!

 

[Evans Electric]

Are the boilers you mention in domestic premises ,   so you just need to be Domestic Installer  registered  to cover you for Part P  of the Building Regs ?  

Or are you applying for Full Scope membership ?  

You don't need to  join the NIC  for  commercial & industrial work ...........but if you do any work subject to  Local Building Control  ( Like new circuits in domestic premises)   then you  have to satisfy Part P of the Building Regs  by proving you are a "Competent Person"   and are signing off your own work .

The last I heard  was the NIC did not accept  a third party signing off work ,  but NAPPITT & STROMA do  ...I believe.   

As Phil says ...if the cheque clears  ...you're in ....  

 

[callumf]

No these are industrial boilers in the range of 100kW to about 5MW, no domestic at all. We are applying for approved contractor status, are you sure your correct when you say that you don't need to join the NIC for industrial and commercial? Also not sure about NIC not allowing third party's to sign off work there's plenty self build houses get thrown up then the owner calls the local building control who in turn send out a third party to test and inspect 

 

[Rob_the_rich]

It makes no sense to become an approved contractor if you are only doing 1 or 2 jobs per year. For the cost of your membership, test equipment, training etc. getting a spark to pop around once or twice a year and install it seems much cheaper and far less stress

 

[callumf]

I do t think you understand we are a company with 3 fully trained and experienced sparks employed and of course we test our installation but without being a member of the NIC or the like we cannot certificate our work also in the future we may expand and have more installations per year. It's not just popping round to install it, these are projects that can run into months of installation work, we are aiming to be an approved contractor to certificate our own work. 

Cheers

 

[Murdoch]

You WILL need example certificates for your assessment ................. if you don't on the day .................... another charge for a day is likely from the NICEIC

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Why can't you certificate your work? If you employ qualified sparks, then download some bs7671 forms, fill them in and sign them.

Unless you need niceic name for some insurance company, or to make your customer feel re-assured.

 

[Evans Electric]

I , as always , will stand corrected ,  but I don't see  why you need to join the NIC for Industrial work .     Years ago we were  registered because it was a requirement  of our clients who were  , Barclays Bank,   West Midlands County Council,  NHS  ,  Birmingham City Council  , MOD .  

Twenty odd years ago I became self employed  doing industrial & commercial work ....there was never any  need to join the NIC   .   

After the recession  we had changed to  new build, & domestic  extensions ,  Part P had been inflicted upon us along with the need to sign off our work to Local Building Control  so it was hello NIC  again.  

As Rob the Rich says  ,  you can just buy the British Standard certificates  to use .    None of your work has to be notified ....the occasional boiler  you can sub out to a Part P,eer .  

 

[Risteard]

without being a member of the NIC or the like we cannot certificate our work

That simply isn't correct. Not only can you certify your work, but in fact you must certify your work to comply with BS7671. The NIC would take non-certification as a serious breach. It cannot be carried out by another contractor - you are the contractor being assessed and therefore you must certify the work.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I do t think you understand we are a company with 3 fully trained and experienced sparks employed and of course we test our installation but without being a member of the NIC or the like we cannot certificate our work also in the future we may expand and have more installations per year. It's not just popping round to install it, these are projects that can run into months of installation work, we are aiming to be an approved contractor to certificate our own work. 

Cheers

Actually I don't think you understand. Every qualified, competent electrician should be following the guidance of BS7671 wiring regulations to the current edition applicable at the time the works were designed.  The work should be designed, installed, tested and certified using suitable test equipment and documented onto one of the standard model forms given in BS7671.  All of this information is clearly available inBS7671 wiring regulations and the associated guidance notes. If you have not tested and documented your work then you have not complied with BS7671.

There are options for different companies to undertake the separate aspects of Design / Install / Test & Inspect of a particular job and a multiple signatory certificate can be used for this purpose. Or if all the work is carried out by the same company then they will sign for all three parts. Any person who has passed the relevant City & Guilds qualifications should be aware of all of this as testing & documentation are part of the course work. 

However your statement that you must be NIC registered to certify work is wrong. There is no requirement for any company to be a member of any electrical contracting body for any aspect of standard commercial or domestic electrical work. Even notifiable Part-P work can be undertaken by contractors who are unregistered with any scheme. or by DIY'ers. there are just different procedures to follow which are laid out in approved document P. There are various reasons why a company may voluntary choose to join any of the trade associations, (there are others beside the NICEIC), But it is not and never has been to allow a contractor to issue BS7671 certificates for their work. They should have been doing this since the day they commenced trading.

Doc H. 

 

[Blue Duck]

I don't understand why you need to notify anything if you are not doing domestic.? Maybe one of your sparks wants to do some PJ's? 

people in suits like stickers so a lot of contractors go AC to keep the suits happy.

:C