Niceic Will Not Operate 3Rd Party Test Scheme

[Steve3948]

So looking at the reports the NIC say they will not be party of any 3rd Party Test and Inspection scheme saying it opens up to diy'ers getting work certified for Part P requirements, but they understand other operators will be starting such schemes very soon.

Is this a good stand by the NIC or a stupid one.

I think its the right move, what do others think.

 

[Blue Duck]

I think they are trying to backup what the "trade" thinks but jumping into bed with rated people says different so as usual were left with a confusing mess which is a result of trying to keep us happy as well as lining their pockets.

I'm thinking this 3rd party thing will go down in flames literally and it will be the sheds that are to blame.

 

[batty]

I can't see BSI doing it they have always been strict on who they let enroll so would not want to be saying other peoples work is up to there standard.

 

[ProDave]

I predict that someone will start up the 3rd party scheme and it will be offered as a service in the sheds, so you can buy your own kit and buy the service to get it certified.

I also predict, being national firms, the sheds will also offer that service north of the border.  I wonder what the takeup rate would be up here?

All this is doing is winding the clock back to pre 2006 before phart pee came along.  I don't see the problem personally.  I don't see electricians going out of business in droves as a result of this 3rd party scheme. After all, was there a huge increase in business for electricians p

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

They have withdrawn the association with  Rated People, had this email a few days ago

Responding to your feedback


We are writing to you regarding the recent NICEIC newsletter describing the offer of a one month free trial with Rated People.

Firstly, we apologise to those customers who felt the offer was unsuitable and voiced their concerns accordingly.

At NICEIC we are committed to promoting the work of our customers to specifiers and householders. We are constantly working to explore opportunities to achieve that objective. We have a robust process for checking whether any potential partner is suitable to be associated with our brand, as well as being able to deliver what they promise to customers.I want to personally reassure you, that with regard to the e-shot offer our aim was to publicise the free month’s trial, as we believed it could be of interest and help customers to build their businesses. There was no commercial gain involved for NICEIC and the offer itself was for a trial period only. The offer will still be honoured for those that have signed up.

However, we have listened to our customer feedback and realise that although our motivation was right it was an error of judgement to publicise another party’s promotional services when we should focus on promoting NICEIC contractors directly to specifiers and homeowners.  Therefore, we will no longer publicise the free trial or any further offer(s) from web-based marketing services.We hope that this decision resolves any concerns you may have, and we reiterate our continued commitment to raising our own standards, so we provide customers with the highest level of service.

Yours sincerely
Matt Gantley
Commercial Director
[email protected]
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[Evans Electric]

I received that email .....no idea what it was about TBH.   What are /is  Rated People?      I hit the delete  button at line after a few lines .

I may have this wrong, but were they ordered to sort out the 3rd party certification by the Gov. Committee ?  

I have read somewhere that the 3rd party will NOT be Phart Pee  Registered Contractors ,  NIC /  ECA . ELECSA  etc . It will be a new seperate entity of testing  qualified , highly insured , Certifying Engineers of some sort .  

Like a fool I imagined people would just phone registered contractors but that was never going to happen . ! 

I would also guess that it will finish off all the Part P registration crap  once the high flying certifying guys get into their stride and offer testing & certifying at affordable rates   .

Just another excuse for creating another bunch of fellow travellers who won't ever be doing any actual electrical work  , as in getting hands dirty , getting out onsite on a freezing winter morning , but will be earning more than the rest of us put together  , poncing about in pristine hard hats & goggles with a Cert Pad and a Megger.    They can   Bloody well pi$$ off . :red card

What a load of ballcocks this lot is becoming ,    the public have no idea what the effin'  'ell Part bleedin' P means and don't give a stuff anyway , hence we have the mugs like us who now pay for the privilege of going to work   while the majority of Electricians , Bathroom Fitters , Kitchen Fitters et;al  totally ignore it and continue to work as they always did.   

If I was leaving school now and looking for a trade  I'd be running a mile from the load of $hite that this trade has become ............so over regulated theses days that  I come across some younger Sparks who are frightened to open their toolbox before checking they are complying with  a thousand  different rules & regulations.

 

[Blue Duck]

Another problem with nic is that I don't seem to get these emails...

GS38 hammer ftw

 

[Evans Electric]

I get them Ducky....and I'm not even a member.

 

[Blue Duck]

Your elecsa? Same thing really? The emails go to someone who is not an electrician and no longer works for us :C

I've tried to sort this out but it never works every assessment they think its change of QS ffs!

 

[kerching]

.....as i have said before

Then there will be the legal tw@s jumping on the bandwagon......"have YOU been subject of a dodgy third party Inspection? Are YOUR loved ones in danger? Call us , 'Scamming Scrotes for YOU!' We WILL get you the compo YOU deserve!"

 

[Sharpend]

That's the truest thing right there Kerch, where there's a new law, there's a lawyer looking for a new draw!

 

[M107]

B &q have been 3rd party signing off electrical work for ages............and if the recent job I went and rectified is anything to go by, the standard of work will be dropping lower but getting signed off.

 

[Apache]

Can you explain something to me please? You regularly go into an unknown environment and carry out an EICR - from your inspection and testing you decide if the installation is safe, needs improvement or is unsafe.

If your inspection and testing is sufficiently robust that you can call an existing installation safe (or otherwise) why can you not do the same thing to some new work done by an unregistered party (DIYer, retired spark, industrial spark) and issue a certificate?

If the testing is not robust then you shouldn't give a satisfactory EICR.

If I was a DIYer doing my own work and I wanted a certificate, it is not in my best interests to do a crappy job that you will come along and condemn.

It's seems an obvious way of getting work from unregistered parties certified. No?

 

[Sidewinder]

An EICR is a report.

An EIC IS a certificate.

The first, the EICR, reports on the installed condition as can be observed.

An EIC, CERTIFIES the installation complies totally in all aspects with the current version of BS 7671 as installed.

A BIG difference.

 

[batty]

Problem is some people don't know they  are doing a shocking job but will expect some other person to sign it of for them.

 

[M107]

It boils down to who becomes legally responsible for the installation work, 3rd party sign off (the way I read it) you are in effect issuing an EIC and as such taking responsibility for such things as cable routes, if you've not put them in would you sign your life away?

An EICR im giving a recommendation on the safety of the installation for continued use.

 

[batty]

To do one you would need to look at cables at first fix before ceilings are tacked and cables are plastered over otherwise you are playing a dangerous game in my opinion. 

 

[ProDave]

Okay, because I don't deal with such things, I have to ask a dumb question.

Just WHAT do you put on a "part P certificate"?

Does that include a full set of test results?

I though Part P was just a building regulation with regard to where cables run etc. So  I would assume you would still issue an EIC as well as a part P certificate.

The EIC is easy.  Use the 3 signature form. Your Mr DIY signs for design and erection and you only sign for test.  Then you are NOT responsible for the cable routes, someone else has signed to say they are okay.

 

[Sharpend]

The Part P certificate comes from the scam provider to confirm that the job is notified and compliant. The installer doesn't even see it! The installer fills out EIC as normal and leaves with client, does notification online with scam provider and the rest is done by scam.

As you say the 3 signature EIC is the way to go. The only drawback is if the design is not compliant?

 

[Evans Electric]

I read ages ago that 3rd party certifying was a possibility and I remember the report to say the inspection would be similar to the Building Inspector .

So 1st fix cable runs ...................2nd fix  , test & cert .    Much cheaper to join a scam I would think.

As we know , you can get 3rd party certify now via your Building Control ...who send an NICEIC contractor  .  Last time I looked B,ham charged the same as the yearly scammer fee  .  

I think "Design"  Will ramp up the cost TBH as the installer will have to present his design calcs for 3rd party scrutiny os as said, sign the Design & Install boxes .

I'm guessing it will be made even more complicated though .

What a joke eh !     Part P  is part of the British Building Regulations ..............  Oh  hang on ..but  doesn't apply in  Scotland ...so thats fine ....ah no  hang on ....  yes it applies in Wales but its different somehow  ( I can't remember how ...as I 've given up caring ) 

I have a card that tells me how it differs  in Wales but I never read it .

Oh and lets not forget that its changed in England now .........  something like "Any non-competent   tosser with a screwdriver can now do domestic electrical  jobs as long as they don't install a new circuit back to the board .  

So they can mess with your existing wiring and hopefully they won't kill you & yours in the process.

Who the hell thought that one up  :coat :C headbang