NICIEC Assessments, Advice Needed Please

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cr0ft

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Hi all. First question on here so please go easy on me! I'm in the process of arranging jobs for my 2 assessments by NICEIC. One is going to be wiring my dad's garage. The thing is, understandably, he doesn't want to throw lots of money at it (who does when it's electrics?).

The SWA has already been laid underneath the ground but there's a list of items which I've noticed which I think will need addressed before the assessment. Can anyone tell me how much the assessor will care about these? Bearing in mind that quite a lot will not have been installed by me. Basically I'm installing from the garage consumer unit on.

1.) Consumer unit is missing the bottom faceplate. Three circuits are just run in through the whole were the faceplate is. The gap is of course easily big enough to get a whole hand in and grab the live busbar. Obviously this is dangerous but as I'm not installing it will I fail the assessment if I do work in the garage knowing about this? I would have to at least insulation resistance test the underground cable so there is no way I could claim I didn't notice this.

2.) The SWA cable to the garage is not terminated to the consumer unit correctly as there is no gland (how can there be after all, there's no bottom faceplate to terminate it to). This obviously needs fixing prior to me energising the garage installation. One of the 3 cores is being used as a CPC and is terminated correctly to the earth busbar in the consumer unit.

3.) The 100A supply to the property passes through a 63A 30mA double pole RCD before arriving at the main isolator in the CU. Am I right in presuming this needs to be a 100A RCD? Please note we're not talking about a split-load CU here, this RCD has been fitted between the meter and the CU, presumably as a cheap way to provide RCD protection to the property. My understanding is that the 63A is the maximum capacity the RCD will take, thus making this installation dangerous?

I noticed a couple of other worrying things. The CPC from the garage to the main CU was very loose in the main consumer unit (I pulled it out without unscrewing it). Most of the cables are run in the back of the house CU but the insulation has been stripped back to before they enter the CU and there is also no grommet so it's core insulation against metal CU hole.

Could anyone please advise on the minimum work I should insist on if I am going to use this as an assessment? I am thinking item 2 will need to be addressed but I'm assuming the assessor will need item 1 and 3 fixed prior to signing it off as a pass?

Advice greatly appreciated.

 
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Crofty , I stopped reading halfway because you can't present that to the assessor , whatever you show him has to be done right , grommets....the lot .

He'll just write it all down and it'll look dreadful to be honest .

You need to spend some money and get it right . :(

 
Figured as much. Am I right in my assessment of all of the above though? I'm particularly worried about the 63A RCD before the consumer unit on a 100A supply.

This is my parent's house and my dad is being stubborn. My mum was genuinly worried when I pointed this out and I want to know how much to push this with them! Don't want them at any risk of dying in a electrical fire to be honest.

 
I agree, and, as its your dad and its for your benefit why dont you split the cost?

You cant expect someone else to pay out good money for something you want.

 
Oh, I'm not charging him any labour, he's just buying materials required. Doesn't that sound fair to you?

 
As a Domestic installer you usually get to nominate the jobs you take the assessor to. So make sure that they are right, don't take any risk!

The CU having no "lower" cover,, don't quite know what you mean here, but if there a exposed live parts then you should be issuing a danger notice and not carrying out any work until the defects are corrected.

To me the RCD is much less of an issue, just because the main fuse holder says 100A, doesn't mean that it has a 100A fuse - many have 60A or 80A fuses! However having an upfront RCD isn't the best because if you have any earth faults the whole house trips out:(

Now, the cables entering the rear of the CU should be sheathed beyond their point of entry, the fact that this is a metal clad CU and the hole doesn't have a gromet strip fitted is doubly bad,,, you could sort this by heat shrinking the cables a little bit and fitting some strip.

As for the minimum amount of work that you have to do, you could split the tails before the RCD and supply a small board for the garage sub main, just make sure that your new CUs earth and the bonding is up to standard and make sure that you comment on the rest of the installation on the EIC,,, but I myself would really be wanting to sort out any exposed live parts.

 
Hi and thanks for your reply. On the bottom of the consumer unit is an 8"x3" gap where a plate which should be held in by 4 screws is missing completely. The live busbar is about 3" above this gap, of which there's a section around 4" in length exposed.

The supplier's fuse cover says 100A, although I can't check it of course without popping the seal. Surely we have to assume the worst case here though? My mum says the RCD is always tripping too. I realise this isn't necessarily due to over-current through it, it could be wiring issues etc in the house.

Could you explain what you mean re heat-shrinking, are you on about heat-shrinking new PVC insulation onto the existing wiring? How is this done exactly? This is where my lack of practical experience is going to show :)

Thanks for your help so far.

 
You can get stuff called "heat shrink", it comes as a long tube which can be cut to length and it has something like a 3:1 shrink ratio. Obviously you'd need to disconnect the cables terminations, slip it over (partially over the existing sheath) and then apply some heat with a hot air gun. It'll then shrink and act as a sheath over the insulated cores.

You can get some heat shrink that has a glue lining that also activates when you shrink it.

 
Thanks matey. Exactly why I'm in the process of teaming up with a more experienced electrician from my local area for a good while! These 5 week courses are great as long as you come away not expecting to know it all. In fact, I know very little :)

I'll get some of that from the merchant when I'm down there later this week, sounds like it will be very useful.

 
Hi all. First question on here so please go easy on me! I'm in the process of arranging jobs for my 2 assessments by NICEIC. One is going to be wiring my dad's garage. The thing is, understandably, he doesn't want to throw lots of money at it (who does when it's electrics?).The SWA has already been laid underneath the ground but there's a list of items which I've noticed which I think will need addressed before the assessment. Can anyone tell me how much the assessor will care about these? Bearing in mind that quite a lot will not have been installed by me. Basically I'm installing from the garage consumer unit on.

1.) Consumer unit is missing the bottom faceplate. Three circuits are just run in through the whole were the faceplate is. The gap is of course easily big enough to get a whole hand in and grab the live busbar. Obviously this is dangerous but as I'm not installing it will I fail the assessment if I do work in the garage knowing about this? I would have to at least insulation resistance test the underground cable so there is no way I could claim I didn't notice this.

Advice greatly appreciated.
It

 
Okay, going off on a tangent.

Seeing the flag the OP is flying, can I ask one simple question.

Exactly why are you wanting to join the NICIEC?

 
Hi. In answer's to the questions above: -

@SPECIAL_LOCATION

1.) The tails are 25mm.

2.) The RCD won't trip due to over-current, I understand that. But if the current is over their rated current (63A as I've said) they can trip due to component failure, obviously this can't be relied on though as it's not what the RCD is designed to do. Clearly they can also melt if they are being used at above their rated current, which is my worry. At least that's what I was told by our tutor. Is he wrong on that do you think?

3.) I hope I can convince my parents to get a new consumer unit and have it properly fitted and issued with a proper certificate, if only for the fact that the current unit is discontinued and they have no bottom cover on it.

@ProDave, I'm joining NICEIC because I believe that all electrical installations should be installed properly by the books, I'm passionate about this which is why I'm on here seeking advice. Everything that I install will be done by the green book. I'm just not sure how much they will delve into the existing install. My common sense tells me that no assessor will pass an install with a 24 square inch hole in the bottom of the consumer unit, even if it has been fitted by another electrician.

 
Any pics of your parents CU that you could post up?

 
Sure, please see below. Just phoned Western Power (the DNO) and asked them if they kept records of the size of supplier fuse at the property. No we don't was the answer. I thought they were meant to keep this information?

They said that I should have the tools to test the size of the supplier fuse. Am I missing something here? I don't see how I can test this!

Luckily my dad is going to get the work done to put it all right, he was just hacked off because he's paid another 'semi-retired electrician' to sort it before.

The photo will be good for a 'spot the fault' competition if nothing else. The hole in the bottom of the unit is as a result of the missing plate and was there before I opened it...

photo.jpg

 
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@ProDave, I'm joining NICEIC because I believe that all electrical installations should be installed properly by the books, I'm passionate about this which is why I'm on here seeking advice. Everything that I install will be done by the green book. I'm just not sure how much they will delve into the existing install. My common sense tells me that no assessor will pass an install with a 24 square inch hole in the bottom of the consumer unit, even if it has been fitted by another electrician.
That's fine, I won't try and talk you out of it.

I was just making sure you knew there was no part P up here, so you don't have to join any of the schemes if you don't want to.

Re the gaping great hole in the bottom of the CU. It looks like it's missing it's gland plate.

Post the make of the CU and a picture of it, and perhaps one of us has an old one knocking about that you could have the gland plate from. Then you would just have to sort out the RCD.

EDIT Ah I see a picture now. Looks like an old MEM board.

That SWA cable wants urgent attention. The SWA (covered in tape) looks VERY close to the L busbar. You don't want that touching the busbar do you!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 14:44 ---------- Previous post was made at 14:41 ----------

They said that I should have the tools to test the size of the supplier fuse. Am I missing something here? I don't see how I can test this!
Yes.

Keep on applying greater and greater loads, until the main fuse blows. Then phone the DNO to come and replace it. :slap

(that's not a serious suggestion by the way)

 
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@ProDave - LOL @ supplier fuse testing. Even though my flag says Scotland, I'm actually in England now, Lincolnshire to be exact. I just happen to be Scottish and proud of it :) Wondered where you were going with the NICEIC question!

 
@ProDave - LOL @ supplier fuse testing. Even though my flag says Scotland, I'm actually in England now, Lincolnshire to be exact. I just happen to be Scottish and proud of it :) Wondered where you were going with the NICEIC question!
This forum needs a "location" box in the top, not just a country flag that's not always 100% correct.

So the correct answer is you are joining the NICEIC so you can self certify part P jobs.

 

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