No neutral continuity

[total1]

Hi guys, I did an EICR and found the there was no neutral continuity on a socket ring feeding 3 bedrooms and a lounge.
The live and cpc were good, I removed the socket fronts to all that I could access and found no neutral cable hanging out
that I had hoped for. Just curious as to how you would proceed from here ?
Thanks in advance

 

[ProDave]

Keep looking. Find the sockets you have not yet found. Then it gets harder, the hidden junction boxes under the floor? The hidden junction boxes behind the kitchen units in the shiny new kitchen recently fitted y "professionals" etc.

Ask for ANY work done, yes ANY even if the work was not "electrical"

Oh and tell them you are on an hourly rate to find the fault, it is not something you can price. It might take an hour, it might take a day.

Start with a wander lead from the CU to trace exactly where the break occurs then you at least have a clue where to start looking.

 

[Murdoch]

How old is the property?

did you use your wander lead or go round doing R2 + Rn tests ?

and a broken ring may not be visible - did you “tug” at every neutral connection ?

 

[kerching]

I was once "fooled" by what I thought was the Neutral correspoing to the line......it wasn't
L-L OK
E-E OK
N- wrong Neutral,from a different leg NOT OK

Just saying

 

[Murdoch]

^^

Good point. Check each leg you have to the neutral bar OR do the tests at a socket on the ring

 

[Fleeting]

Code it, submit the Report.

 

[Murdoch]

Code it, submit the Report.

sound advice. You are there to inspect and test. Not fix unless it’s a C1

 

[total1]

No I didn't tug them in the back of the sockets, will do in future.
One socket has had a tv unit constructed half over it ! and another socket has only one cable in it
and the nearest ones don't have 3, so there is at least 1 junction box under the floor.
It's a pain because it's ground floor and 1st floor (x3 bedrooms and a lounge).
What would the plan be if I couldn't find it ??

 

[total1]

How would you code it ?

 

[Murdoch]

How would you code it ?

what code would you give it ?

 

[Andy™]

code it and move on. same as you would with any other c2/3

 

[Fleeting]

No I didn't tug them in the back of the sockets, will do in future.
One socket has had a tv unit constructed half over it ! and another socket has only one cable in it
and the nearest ones don't have 3, so there is at least 1 junction box under the floor.
It's a pain because it's ground floor and 1st floor (x3 bedrooms and a lounge).
What would the plan be if I couldn't find it ??

Why are you looking for the fault you are just wasting time. You are there to compile a Report, as I say Code it and submit the Report.
As for what Code you need to make a judgement on what danger, if any exists and apply a suitable Code.

 

[ProDave]

As for fix it now or code it and submit your report. That depends on what the customer instructed you to do. e.g. if a landlord and they need a satisfactory EICR to let a property they might be more inclined to ask you to fix faults as you go. But if a prospective house buyer, they just want to know how much work if they buy the house, not to fix a house that is not even theirs.

 

[binky]

No I didn't tug them in the back of the sockets, will do in future.
One socket has had a tv unit constructed half over it ! and another socket has only one cable in it
and the nearest ones don't have 3, so there is at least 1 junction box under the floor.
It's a pain because it's ground floor and 1st floor (x3 bedrooms and a lounge).
What would the plan be if I couldn't find it ??

20amp MCB, treat it as a radial as long as you have neutral at each socket

 

[ProDave]

20amp MCB, treat it as a radial as long as you have neutral at each socket

I have done that, where I have found the broken leg, disconnected it, and converted to two radials each fed from a 16A mcb. Where the customer did not want to spend the time actually finding the fault.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi guys, I did an EICR and found the there was no neutral continuity on a socket ring feeding 3 bedrooms and a lounge.
The live and cpc were good, I removed the socket fronts to all that I could access and found no neutral cable hanging out
that I had hoped for. Just curious as to how you would proceed from here ?
Thanks in advance

Best practice guide 4 suggest a C2...
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

So once you have complied and issued your unsatisfactory EICR to the customer & been paid...
Ask them if they want you to investigate the fault further...

If you need advice on how to locate the break...

I would probably....
(a) Make a note of every accessory location that is supplied from this circuit.
(b) Split the ring at the CU.
(c) Join L+N+E on one leg of the ring into a wago, then test continuity L->E, L->N, N-.E. at each accessory. noting ohm values..
which will give you a "join the dots" order that the circuit goes down one leg of the circuit...
(d) do the same as point "c" for the other leg of the ring... so you will then also have a "join the dots" continuity order for the rest of circuit.

After the above you will have a better idea about how the circuit is wired and where the continuity fails!

Your next step will depend upon what you do or don't find during your investigations.

The last one of this type of situation that I did was 1x days labour for the EICR..
1x days labour to investigate the circuit fully.....
Half days labour + materials to install new section of cable to rectify the fault.

AND.. Always remember that all accessories on a ring may not all be directly connected to the ring...
Spurs (& Spurs of Spurs), can often cause problems if they are supplied from concealed junction boxes!

 

[Mike P]

I find it easier to work on it live to start. Split the ring at the furthest point and work back on each side you are then only working on one leg of the ring. Just easier to start and pin the area down

 

[Murdoch]

99 out of 100 continuity failures are due to poor terminations at accessories IME

 

[total1]

Thank you all for your advice, much appreciated