No Part P Certificate

[ProDave]

This one i saw yesterday must be ok then, its all metal

View attachment 6659

I've got a rewire coming up. The lighting wiring at least is from the original 1949 install, complete with round brass toggle light switches and bakerlite ceiling roses.  All in steel conduit.

 

[No1]

Ok No1, (personally I think you dealt a No2), please demonstrate with quote whereby someone here stated that YOU charged twice? 

Secondly as clearly stated by our learned members there were other areas that were not compliant with current regs which you chose to ignore or did you explain to this vulnerable couple that the colour of their cables was non compliant, probably not why because you thought that was ok however a plastic consumer unit wasn't? So in your own admission the board needed to be changed as it wasn't compliant IYO, but the old cables were compliant so didn't need to be changed? 

And yes this is getting silly, you completely fail to see the error? 

 

[No1]

The wolf pack is out tonight. I really fail to see what the problem is. I have done what the customer asked me to do and they are happy with the work I have done. I have improved what was there before and it is now a lot safer.

Surely this is what every decent electrician aims to do?

 

[ProDave]

The wolf pack is out tonight. I really fail to see what the problem is. I have done what the customer asked me to do and they are happy with the work I have done. I have improved what was there before and it is now a lot safer.

Surely this is what every decent electrician aims to do?

In what way is it "a lot safer"?

Did you find and correct other faults with the installation, or just change the CU?  What make was the old one, what make is the new one?

Do YOU really believe a metal CU is any less likely to catch fire than the 2 month old plastic one you removed? If it does catch fire, do you really believe it will contain the fire?

 

[Sharpend]

The wolf pack is out tonight. I really fail to see what the problem is. I have done what the customer asked me to do and they are happy with the work I have done. I have improved what was there before and it is now a lot safer.

Surely this is what every decent electrician aims to do?

So the problem as you saw it was it needed improving and it wasn't as safe as it could be ? 

Please explain? 

 

[No1]

The facts remain that all you need to do was check the install was satisfactory and issue an eicr, what the blazes it has to do with the labc is beyond me, are you competent to make a professional judgement as to whether an install is safe and/or compliant if so why do you need the blessings of the labc who are probably the least competent to know? 

You probably could've got the LFB to pop round and confirm they were happy with the tightness of terminations within the cu and all would have been well with the world! 

Sorry to rant but what you have done is charged the innocent twice to not please them nor yourself that it was ok but to please the system that fails us? 

I said it once I'll say it again, if you are satisfied that something has been installed to the regualtions no court or policeman is going to do any harm to you. They are simply not that stupid, could you imagine the headlines- a qualified spark certified install as compliant and safe, only for judge to tell him otherwise!!

There you go you said I charged the innocent twice.

 

[Sharpend]

There you go you said I charged the innocent twice.

Quite right, you were the second person to charge them. Therefore a charge was applied to the customer twice for what was essentially the same job. The question is was it necessary for the second charge to be applied in the first place? The work you carried out served no purpose? 

 

[No1]

In what way is it "a lot safer"?

Did you find and correct other faults with the installation, or just change the CU?  What make was the old one, what make is the new one?

Do YOU really believe a metal CU is any less likely to catch fire than the 2 month old plastic one you removed? If it does catch fire, do you really believe it will contain the fire?

Cpc are now connected to the two metal light fittings in the conservatory, there are no holes visible in the consumer unit, the mcbs/rcds are labelled correctly, there is now no live twin & cpc sticking out of the wall to name a few. Maybe I should have just left it how it was?

I have never said a metal CU is less likely to catch fire than plastic so I'm not sure why you are saying that? Please explain to me why you are?

 

[Sharpend]

So now we gain greater understanding as you have provided further information. 

Still doesn't explain the need to change the cu. what I think Dave is driving at is the amendment relates to the self combusting plastic consumer unit and the need to address this with a metal unit which will potentially self combust but not allow the flame to escape as quick.  You admit that a metal has as much or as little chance of catching fire as the plastic but still proceeded to change it? 

 

[No1]

So the problem as you saw it was it needed improving and it wasn't as safe as it could be ? 

Please explain? 

Maybe I should have left this in then?

 

[No1]

So now we gain greater understanding as you have provided further information. 

Still doesn't explain the need to change the cu. what I think Dave is driving at is the amendment relates to the self combusting plastic consumer unit and the need to address this with a metal unit which will potentially self combust but not allow the flame to escape as quick.  You admit that a metal has as much or as little chance of catching fire as the plastic but still proceeded to change it? 

Yes because that is what they wanted me to do. Is it not sinking in yet? If I post it a few more times will you get it then?

Please let me know which part of They wanted me to fit a metal consumer unit you are struggling with and I will try to help you?

 

[No1]

Quite right, you were the second person to charge them. Therefore a charge was applied to the customer twice for what was essentially the same job. The question is was it necessary for the second charge to be applied in the first place? The work you carried out served no purpose? 

Yes, I was the second person to charge them but I haven't charged them twice, there is a difference. Are you seriously saying the work I carried out served no purpose?

So now we gain greater understanding as you have provided further information. 

Still doesn't explain the need to change the cu. what I think Dave is driving at is the amendment relates to the self combusting plastic consumer unit and the need to address this with a metal unit which will potentially self combust but not allow the flame to escape as quick.  You admit that a metal has as much or as little chance of catching fire as the plastic but still proceeded to change it? 

Again, jumping to conclusions without knowing the full facts.

 

[No1]

Ok No1, (personally I think you dealt a No2), please demonstrate with quote whereby someone here stated that YOU charged twice? 

Secondly as clearly stated by our learned members there were other areas that were not compliant with current regs which you chose to ignore or did you explain to this vulnerable couple that the colour of their cables was non compliant, probably not why because you thought that was ok however a plastic consumer unit wasn't? So in your own admission the board needed to be changed as it wasn't compliant IYO, but the old cables were compliant so didn't need to be changed? 

And yes this is getting silly, you completely fail to see the error? 

Again, I have never said a plastic consumer unit wasn't ok, and I have never admitted that the board needed to be changed because it wasn't compliant. You seem to be great at putting words in my mouth.

 

[Sharpend]

Well the more information you provide the greater understanding we can have and therefore the more accurate direction we can offer?

have you got any 'after' pictures to compare it too? 

The point being, they would not of known about the metal cu cos if they did why didn't they insist the first guy put one in, so therefore you must have put the knowledge out there for them to consider it, which as pointed out is not wrong provided you gave the relevant explanation as to the little effect a metal one has over a plastic one? 

Clearly if we repeat ourselves enough the penny will drop and you will see from where we come from? 

 

[No1]

Well the more information you provide the greater understanding we can have and therefore the more accurate direction we can offer?

have you got any 'after' pictures to compare it too? 

The point being, they would not of known about the metal cu cos if they did why didn't they insist the first guy put one in, so therefore you must have put the knowledge out there for them to consider it, which as pointed out is not wrong provided you gave the relevant explanation as to the little effect a metal one has over a plastic one? 

Clearly if we repeat ourselves enough the penny will drop and you will see from where we come from? 

I haven't got any photos of the new one, but I am going back next week so I will take some and put them on here so you can all pull it to bits.

I provided enough information for you to answer my original question, as I managed to get some genuine helpful answers. It was just you and the usual wolves who latched on to the fact that I had fitted a metal consumer unit and wouldn't let it go. Putting words into my mouth and trying to drag me down.

I don't need to see where you are coming from I explained to the couple about the options they had and they opted for the metal CU. It really was as simple as that.

 

[steptoe]

I haven't got any photos of the new one, but I am going back next week so I will take some and put them on here so you can all pull it to bits.

I provided enough information for you to answer my original question, as I managed to get some genuine helpful answers. It was just you and the usual wolves who latched on to the fact that I had fitted a metal consumer unit and wouldn't let it go. Putting words into my mouth and trying to drag me down.

I don't need to see where you are coming from I explained to the couple about the options they had and they opted for the metal CU. It really was as simple as that.

Well the more information you provide the greater understanding we can have and therefore the more accurate direction we can offer?

have you got any 'after' pictures to compare it too? 

The point being, they would not of known about the metal cu cos if they did why didn't they insist the first guy put one in, so therefore you must have put the knowledge out there for them to consider it, which as pointed out is not wrong provided you gave the relevant explanation as to the little effect a metal one has over a plastic one? 

Clearly if we repeat ourselves enough the penny will drop and you will see from where we come from? 

what was the option that required you to point out to them that we 'normally' [not always], install metal consumer units in domestic?

and did you point out to them the reason why, in case the installer doesn't install a plastic one correctly?

 

[Sharpend]

So prey tell what were their options? 

 

[No1]

I can't seem to get through to people, so I'll leave it here now.

Customers happy and I'm happy. That's all that matters.

I'll leave you lot know until your next prey comes along.

All the Best and thanks again to those who gave genuine helpful replies.

 

[pewter]

headbang

 

[ProDave]

Maybe I should have left this in then?

Okay, so the "electrician" that fitted that is a complete numpty. There's plenty wrong with what he did.

BUT there is NOTHING wrong with that consumer unit.

I would have disconnected the whole lot, then re connected it properly, correcting all the mistakes and faults with the wiring as you go, and labelled it all properrly.  there was NO NEED to rip that new board off the wall and bin it.

And then, since you HAD re connected the whole CU, I woudl have no difficulty in certifying it just as you did with the new one. You would have connected and tested everything, the only thing you hadn't done was physically screw the CU to the wall.

That's all I am getting at, is why bin a perfectly good CU and charge the customer more money that is not needed?