Part P and confusion from course provider

[angelboy]

I'm quite surprised at that remark .......

Some valid points.

 

[angelboy]

I think that maybe the best course of action would be to employ a sparks to design and test the system and me acting as his labourer. This way I'm getting the professional expertise at a slightly reduced rate but without all the headache of the standards or regulations.

I feel that I may have originally been mislead by the college into believing that the Domestic Part P was the only thing I needed to comply and sign off work in my own home. They had said that no experience was necessary! I think I now understand that I need to be sufficient 'beyond' the basics before complying with the 17th Edition and Part P which potentially means investing the time to learning which I would have to commit to now but may cut straight across my build schedule. The Part P and the 17th Edition need to be signed up for this week so I've been under slight pressure to make a decision.

If I had the time to learn what's required then I would make savings, no doubt, but I understand it's a little more complicated than I first thought.

 

[Doc Hudson]

If this is a complete new build, you may also have complications getting the supply company to put the power onto the new incoming cable without seeing some evidence of a registered electricians test certificates and/or the electricians assessments of maximum demand.

Doc H.

 

[tom1]

if you had some decent experiance or planned on getting some then a short course could work out, i think it depends on what type you go for but some dont really teach you they just asseses you over 5 days, then people wonder why they fail and were there thousands of pound have gone

if you had the intention of becoming a domestic spark

i would enroll on a collage domestic instalers course

this would include part p exam and 2382

i would contract a experianced spark to do the work at your house that will allow you to work along side him in the design and installation and testing, (this may be hard to find you may end up paying more)

i would be clear that your not there as a free labour for choping boxes and makeing tea all day (i would expect to do some though) if you can find some one to do this then great, offer to work when they can have you for free or low wage and when you have a good level of experance look to join a sceam have your work assesed and continue your career working in your depth.

if you have no intention of being a spark then get one in disscuss what you want installing and were, pay him to do it, let him get on with it and earn problely similar

money in your normal job with out all the time and expense and worry if what you have bured in the walls and floors of your new house is safe and working, and will get signed off

 

[Doc Hudson]

Is there's no value in these course what-so-ever?What would say, on a scale of 1 - 10, the difficulty of designing and wiring a new build house is?

I think Andy pointed out the value of these courses. Part P building regs has only been around for 5 years, prior to that electricians legally wired any domestic properties without any notification or membership of any bodies. Once Part P was introduced some electricians found their qualifications did not entitle them to self certify their work. So short courses were introduced to bring these electricians up to speed rather than a year at college. Unfortunately some training companies try to sell these courses as a magic anyone can wire a house in week. As with all product advertising the less desirable points are never brought to your attention. Scale of 1 - 10 with reference to what? probably 1 compared to flying a Jumbo Jet but 10 compared to moving a radiator.

Doc H.

 

[ianmacd]

Indeed. And a house that size may need more than the std singe phase 100A install from DNO. It may require an additional phase or 2 and then the fun really starts.

 

[Lurch]

Scale of 1 - 10 with reference to what? probably 1 compared to flying a Jumbo Jet but 10 compared to moving a radiator.

I'd have to disagree to some extent, I've met people who could fly a 747 but would struggle with changing a lamp without killing themselves.

That's yet another question that's impossible to answer, it's all down to the individual. I would say wiring a house to the specification the OP wants is easy so maybe 1 for me (assuming 1 is the easiest, dunno, no mention of what 1 - 10 means). The same job though for other sparks could be a 9 or 10, but then a competent person (not necessarily a sparks or tradesman of any sort) could find it a 3 or 4. It's another how long is a piece of string question I think.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I'd have to disagree to some extent, I've met people who could fly a 747 but would struggle with changing a lamp without killing themselves.That's yet another question that's impossible to answer, it's all down to the individual. I would say wiring a house to the specification the OP wants is easy so maybe 1 for me (assuming 1 is the easiest, dunno, no mention of what 1 - 10 means). The same job though for other sparks could be a 9 or 10, but then a competent person (not necessarily a sparks or tradesman of any sort) could find it a 3 or 4. It's another how long is a piece of string question I think.

You are quite correct, I think the piece of string is the best measure.

Doc H.

 

[angelboy]

1 - 10 in the scale an scope of a jobbin' sparks.

Regardless of prior experience I'm getting thoughts from you as individuals, not trying to make it complicated just YOUR thoughts.

(I have a pilots license by the way but not to fly a 747 )

 

[Apache]

1 - 10 in the scale an scope of a jobbin' sparks.Regardless of prior experience I'm getting thoughts from you as individuals, not trying to make it complicated just YOUR thoughts.

(I have a pilots license by the way but not to fly a 747 )

If things go to plan it's not especially hard. You need to work out what you want and where and see what the likely demand is going to be.

Then you can plan cable runs (remembering floor area, volt drop etc) and decide on suitable size and type of cable and suitable protective devices.

 

[ianmacd]

If things go to plan it's not especially hard. You need to work out what you want and where and see what the likely demand is going to be. Then you can plan cable runs (remembering floor area, volt drop etc) and decide on suitable size and type of cable and suitable protective devices.

That does rather assume its all on one phase.

 

[Lurch]

This could keep going and going.

With no previous experience you could, if you were practically minded and had a bit of common sense, pass the relevant courses and wire a house satisfactorily.

This satisfactorily though refers to the relevant regulations and not necessarily to the quality of workmanship. I personally wouldn;t want my house wired by someone who didn;t have a keen eye for detail and a good working knowledge of the equipment being installed, whether it be the range of accessories used or the AV controllers etc...

Yes, you could save money, but you still get what you pay for and a professional job might be worth the extra. None of us know, you might not have a clue when it comes to the practical side but find the theory side a doddle. The opposite could also be true.

Where's my string of undetermined length?

 

[Apache]

That does rather assume its all on one phase.

Seriously Ian, how many domestic properties have you worked on (as a percentage of the total) that have more than one phase available to them? We have three dairy farms in the village in which I live and they can run a milking parlor, vacuum pumps, milk pumps, milk cooling and their wife can still watch TV with the lights on - all with just a single phase supply.

a professional job might be worth the extra.

A valid point which I agree with 100%!

Despite all that has been said here there is still nothing to stop a homeowner doing the electrics on their own home if they want to, so long as they go through the appropriate channels.

Not all DIYers are incompetent fools - not all DIYers do a crap job and some DIYers even do it because they enjoy it. A professional can do something faster, but you are under the pressure of time, a luxury you don't have when you DIY.

 

[ADS]

(I have a pilots license by the way but not to fly a 747 )

Did you get a holiday quote and then think - 'sod that.....i'll do it myself'. :slapROTFWL

 

[ianmacd]

Seriously Ian, how many domestic properties have you worked on (as a percentage of the total) that have more than one phase available to them? We have three dairy farms in the village in which I live and they can run a milking parlor, vacuum pumps, milk pumps, milk cooling and their wife can still watch TV with the lights on - all with just a single phase supply.

6 Bedrooms, 3 en-suite with 3 10.5KW showers + another in a common shower room. Large range elctric cooker, A few fridges and freezers, Washing machine, Tuble drier, dishwasher. How much is that? Well over 200A?

 

[Apache]

6 Bedrooms, 3 en-suite with 3 10.5KW showers + another in a common shower room. Large range elctric cooker, A few fridges and freezers, Washing machine, Tuble drier, dishwasher. How much is that? Well over 200A?

I'm not saying it's not possible to overload a standard single phase supply, what I asked was how many domestic properties have more than one phase available? I imagine it would be a fraction of a percent, but you might tell me around you one in five houses need it.

In a big house can't imagine anyone would chose electric instantaneous showers over a pump? Especially with all the new fangled solar water heating, ground source heat etc.

I'm not trying to argue, just asking you more experienced guys how many domestic houses you work in with multiple phases

 

[angelboy]

Did you get a holiday quote and then think - 'sod that.....i'll do it myself'. :slapROTFWL

I have flown abroad, yes.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I'm not saying it's not possible to overload a standard single phase supply, what I asked was how many domestic properties have more than one phase available? I imagine it would be a fraction of a percent, but you might tell me around you one in five houses need it. In a big house can't imagine anyone would chose electric instantaneous showers over a pump? Especially with all the new fangled solar water heating, ground source heat etc.

I'm not trying to argue, just asking you more experienced guys how many domestic houses you work in with multiple phases

Angelboys example is not a typical domestic property..

(6 bed, triple 2 storey garage, pool, several outbuildings, CCTV, many outside lights, electric gates, hard wired network, some smart features)

How many of the average domestic properties do you know with Pool..

& several outbuildings.. Your comparison of percentages is likely to be out IMHO.

I assume from these descriptions there are some long cable runs?

possible with a 3-phase and/or multiple supplies required to overcome loading distribution issues!

But again without facts and figures of expected loading even the most keen and eager DIY can't say if its easy or not any more than a qualified spark can...

I know of a few large properties with electric showers...

even on this forum we have had questions about people wanting to run multiple electric showers...

Best NOT to assume things are easy and small loads until facts have been verified.

:| :|

 

[initforthemoney]

There's a reason I can attempt to build of a certain size in the first place is spotting the dodgy people and making sure they don't get my money!

And you are expecting trades to price work without seeing it?

These are probably the very "dodgy people" you are talking about.

Good luck.

Looks like you might need it.

 

[angelboy]

And you are expecting trades to price work without seeing it?

Have you been reading the posts or just skimming them?

If you were reading then I've already gone through this so why keep bringing it up?