Part P Electricans - valuable or dangerous?

[Apache]

I think there is no definite answer to this question, its more to do with the person concerned and their attitude than quals, or experience (though obviously experience helps a lot). Its the sort of question that can only cause division on this forum which its was set up to try and avoid as per SF. The fact that all grades of sparks are here to learn or advise is the main point in helping newer less qualified people improve knowledge and standards, and occasionally teaching old dogs new tricks.

Very diplomatic Binky

I'll sit quietly in my corner

 

[binky]

For my next trick I will peace to the middle East

Nuke the lot of them :^O :^O:^O

You should hear my diplomatic handling of scamm sales calls :O:O:O]

 

[elvis]

If I may just jump in here I think an apprenticeship is about so much more than just the practical application of some of the knowledge you may or may not have learned during whatever college course you have attended.

I know this will sound like an old fashioned point of view (I'm in my 30s bye the way) but I would feel an obligation to any apprentice of mine to teach him/her about work practices, attitude to work etc. Cleaning up the job, raggling the walls (three months solid for one spell in my 1st year), attitude to safety and awareness of safety are all parts of being any kind of tradesman for me.

I understand that many of the more mature people taking these fast track courses may not need so much coaching in some of these areas and frankly, they are as entitled to do whatever they want.

They will not have the rounded experience of someone who has completed an apprenticeship and has a few years experience. I always felt that I learned more in my first two years after qualifying than I did in my entire apprenticeship.

If people are attending these courses for their own benefit then best of luck to them but I don't think they should be out doing unsupervised installations for unwitting customers without at least a couple of years practice and guidance under a more experienced tradesman.

Away for me pipe and slippers!!

 

[andy8758]

Wow - been away for a couple of days and find 6 pages of posts to my original threads - thanks everyone - very interesting reading!

I take particular relief from the fact that a lot of replies come from "time-served" electricians who are members of this forum - its good to see that its not over-frequented with keen amateurs!

You could say that I served a very long apprenticeship - some 30 years of various work - before taking the electrical training when I left my last job. A lot of the skills I had acquired were building work related, what I lacked was the up to date knowledge for the electrical installation work. I could not get an apprenticeship for love nor money (too old) anyway so after some six months intensive study, and various courses I set up on my own. I only do jobs within my capability (I understand 3-phase theory but dont have experience of it so dont accept 3-phase work, or anything else outside my scope e.g. alarms, PV, emergency lighting etc.) and have since gradually built up a good customer base.

What concerns me is when I hear electricans discourse on part P installers being dangerous, yet I constantly deal with premises where work is allegedly done by "a professional electrician" but clearly isn't. For example - 30A fuse for 2.5 T&E radial, 7 sockets off a ring (unfused) spur in a kitchen (OK that was probably a kitchen fitter?), customers who have had work done with no certificates, untested work (an IR fault on a ring main where customer drilled through cable - "last electrician said it was OK"), an outside light wired with live from hall light switch and "borrowed neutral" from CU, extensions wired from existing ring - overloading circuit... the list seems endless sometimes.

The difficulty is in identifying what is work by a competent electrician, and what is not. I suspect some of my local competitors do not always issue certificates because local electrical wholesalers report a "fear of Part P." This therefore makes it difficult to know what has been done by competent electricians and what has not. So if I have difiiculty identifying legitimate work (and our customers often lie about the history of their electrics) is that not the case with the AC's? Are DI's getting blamed for shoddy work when it was either a customer or cowboy at fault?

So I have to agree with those posts who say the Part P system is "pants" and not working. Maybe its time to stop ****ging off everyone who does not have at leats a 2.1 degree in Master Electrics, and served a 10-year apprenticeship as not being a competent electrician, and start setting up a properly regulated process for household electrical installations.

 

[batty]

Wow - been away for a couple of days and find 6 pages of posts to my original threads - thanks everyone - very interesting reading!I take particular relief from the fact that a lot of replies come from "time-served" electricians who are members of this forum - its good to see that its not over-frequented with keen amateurs!

You could say that I served a very long apprenticeship - some 30 years of various work - before taking the electrical training when I left my last job. A lot of the skills I had acquired were building work related, what I lacked was the up to date knowledge for the electrical installation work. I could not get an apprenticeship for love nor money (too old) anyway so after some six months intensive study, and various courses I set up on my own. I only do jobs within my capability (I understand 3-phase theory but dont have experience of it so dont accept 3-phase work, or anything else outside my scope e.g. alarms, PV, emergency lighting etc.) and have since gradually built up a good customer base.

What concerns me is when I hear electricans discourse on part P installers being dangerous, yet I constantly deal with premises where work is allegedly done by "a professional electrician" but clearly isn't. For example - 30A fuse for 2.5 T&E radial, 7 sockets off a ring (unfused) spur in a kitchen (OK that was probably a kitchen fitter?), customers who have had work done with no certificates, untested work (an IR fault on a ring main where customer drilled through cable - "last electrician said it was OK"), an outside light wired with live from hall light switch and "borrowed neutral" from CU, extensions wired from existing ring - overloading circuit... the list seems endless sometimes.

The difficulty is in identifying what is work by a competent electrician, and what is not. I suspect some of my local competitors do not always issue certificates because local electrical wholesalers report a "fear of Part P." This therefore makes it difficult to know what has been done by competent electricians and what has not. So if I have difiiculty identifying legitimate work (and our customers often lie about the history of their electrics) is that not the case with the AC's? Are DI's getting blamed for shoddy work when it was either a customer or cowboy at fault?

So I have to agree with those posts who say the Part P system is "pants" and not working. Maybe its time to stop ****ging off everyone who does not have at leats a 2.1 degree in Master Electrics, and served a 10-year apprenticeship as not being a competent electrician, and start setting up a properly regulated process for household electrical installations.

Trouble is Andy if you find something wrong customer will always tell you it was done by a sparks that is a fact of life.

Batty

 

[green-hornet]

I must say well said!

I suppose you could say I served my time, my tutor in 1976 was a guy called cyril, he was 19 stone of brute old timer,due for retirement when I was a mere lad of 16.

I had and still hold a lot of respect for that old guy he taught me the proper way and always errred on safety regardless of what corners our employer at the time wanted.

One thing he did say to me which I always hold to now is,when you go home at night and kiss your mother, daughter, son or father remember you saved someones life today by doing your job right!

 

[elvis]

One thing I've found on here (and the fact that some of you have found the place is testament to this) is lots of people wanting to do things the right way.

Let's not be fooled, there are plenty of time-served guys out there with plenty of years experience who would be prepared to walk away from jobs that some of our less experienced members on here would not, and I take my hat of to you.

The guys on this forum may seem a little high-minded at times (yes you!) but that is because they want to do the job, and see the job done, the right way because there are still plenty of the old yee-haws still out there...

Need to see if I can get a stetson avatar!!

 

[Andy™]

Need to see if I can get a stetson avatar!!

im sure out resident search engine/vet can help out with that

 

[Apache]

One thing I've found on here (and the fact that some of you have found the place is testament to this) is lots of people wanting to do things the right way.Let's not be fooled, there are plenty of time-served guys out there with plenty of years experience who would be prepared to walk away from jobs that some of our less experienced members on here would not, and I take my hat of to you.

The guys on this forum may seem a little high-minded at times (yes you!) but that is because they want to do the job, and see the job done, the right way because there are still plenty of the old yee-haws still out there...

Need to see if I can get a stetson avatar!!

 

[Andy™]

 

[Apache]

Snap

 

[Apache]

I mended it

 

[ian932]

One thing I've found on here (and the fact that some of you have found the place is testament to this) is lots of people wanting to do things the right way.Let's not be fooled, there are plenty of time-served guys out there with plenty of years experience who would be prepared to walk away from jobs that some of our less experienced members on here would not, and I take my hat of to you.

The guys on this forum may seem a little high-minded at times (yes you!) but that is because they want to do the job, and see the job done, the right way because there are still plenty of the old yee-haws still out there...

Need to see if I can get a stetson avatar!!

maybe admin will add this smilie

 

[elvis]

How do I upload an avatar??

 

[elvis]

sussed it... this or