Part P or Not Part P

[RivieriaKid]

Hi, just in the process of buying a new house, which has had recent bathroom and kitchen work. The owner says both were done in 2004 (conveniently), but I think they were done later, is there anyway I can tell from looking at the wiring if it should have been done to part p? Any markings on the cable or fittings?

As I have no certificates for any of the work done and I don

 

[Zeespark]

Get an independant electrician in to do a full PIR. Then proceed according to what he/she finds.

AndyGuinness

 

[RivieriaKid]

Is tehre anything I can check before paying for a full PIR? everything looks like it is done well. I'm concerned about work that has been done but not certified? Is there a way to tell? or is it too late?

 

[Zeespark]

You can always chase up the contractor, but you may well be on a hiding to nowhere.

AndyGuinness

 

[RivieriaKid]

I have tried that, but 'it was so long ago we cant remember' etc...

Is this something that could come back to bite me when I sell up? Could a future survey show up that actual the work was done after Jan 05 and not before as I have been told? and therefore request a certificate? I don

 

[RivieriaKid]

If I get the report done and teh spark says the wiring in the bathroom was changed since jan 05 and needs part p cert. If no cert exists what should I do? and how much roughly would it cost to get it done retrospectively?

 

[Ali]

I'm new to all this so I'm not sure, but I have always assumed that even before the whole part P fiasco came in, electricians were expected to certificate their work. If so, the certificate should have the date on, and if there is no certificate it's a reason to be a little concerned.

Does any one know if this is true?

Ali

 

[Zeespark]

Ali, the underriding requirement is for the work to be correctly tested, technically a certificate isnt needed as BS7671:2008 is not in fact a legal document. Saying this, it can be used as evidence of compliance with Part P and EAWR1989.

I would personally always certificate it, it is always handy later on.

AndyGuinness

 

[RivieriaKid]

so how could you prove the work was done after 2005? I thought cable colours but you could buy blue/brown t&e in 2004.

I read on another forum that the Building Control would have to prove that the work was not only done after Jan 05 but also in the last 6 months? is that true? it seems mad? makes a nonsense of the whole thing surely!

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------

I'm new to all this so I'm not sure, but I have always assumed that even before the whole part P fiasco came in, electricians were expected to certificate their work. If so, the certificate should have the date on, and if there is no certificate it's a reason to be a little concerned.Does any one know if this is true?

Ali

I have bought several houses in my time and have never been given any electrical certificates....

 

[sparkytim]

At the moment building control can only pursue the situation IF work has been done in the last 6 months.

If the seller has declared the work was done prior to 2005 and you have no proof of it not being correct then nothing can come back on you.

A PIR is not an expensive investment for your piece of mind.

It is recommended that ALL domestic properties have an inspection at least every 10 years, if NO certificates have been issued then how ever good the work "looks" it still did not comply with BS7671 if NO certification was issued.

 

[Andy™]

so how could you prove the work was done after 2005? I thought cable colours but you could buy blue/brown t&e in 2004.

many cu's and other stuff has a manufacturing date printed in them

 

[Doc Hudson]

Any reputable electrician would test their work and issue a certificate of the results to the person ordering the work. Most good electricians put a company name sticker near to the fuse box. But in a domestic installation it was and still is permissible for DIY work to be undertaken and DIY persons very rarely carry out the full tests or issue certificates. As has been suggested, the best course of action would be a periodic inspection which is recommended anyway at a change of occupancy. If that comes back with suggested remedial works then negotiate with the seller. If PIR is satisfactory then just accept things as they are, I cannot see how you can be accountable for work done at a property prior to you living there.

Doc H.

 

[Theorysparky]

This is what i would do

get a PIR done

act on any remedials

keep any paperwork given for the remedials ,,, even if they are invoices for minor repairs

if you sell the house again you are covered

 

[sellers]

As much as you really can't justify spending between 100-300 for a PIR depending on property size. It is well worth it. The first things you need should find out when buying a new house is are the basics ok? You don't want to indulge in all your home improvement plans only to be 5 years down the line and have to ruin your work to re-wire dodgy wiring.

 

[S60TEM]

your solicitor should be dealing with this for you and requesting the PIR be done by the seller at their cost! Thats what you pay your solicitor for! Remedial work needed after the PIR can be used as a bargaining tool for the purchase price of the property or agreed directly with the seller to go halves? Why should you pay for the PIR to be done on a house you don't own yet?

 

[Evans Electric]

As Andy said with the MCBs , some are date coded (its too simple to actually print the date!!!)

Also many things made of plastic have that clock type thing with an arrow pointing to the date of manufacture.

Also ,if you are an electrical engineer ,and you are satisfied that the work is of a good standard, why not forget the Part P baloney and move in. By the time you come to re-sell it no one will have any money anyway ( or get the whole house PIRed )

As said before , that kitchen is one of about 20 trillion jobs which don't get tested, certed, notified every year.

 

[PC Electrics]

As Ev says, you need to look for date codes.

Was the CU replaced or any new MCBs or RCDs added? If so inspect the casing for date markings (usually looks like a clock eg if there's a dot at 12 and 01 in the centre then it was molded in DEC 2001). On MCBs the date code is usually printed and may be the date or week no and year. Alternatively with MCBs you can take the batch code and simply ask the manufacturer.

If it was a larger refit, look for date codes on the hob and oven. Or take their serial numbers and ask the manufacturer.

Downlights often have a very small label with a 4 digit date code, which is usually week no and year.

If several or most of the dates you get are close together, then you have your answer.

The owner sounds like he's being evasive. New kitchen and bathroom? Can't remember who did the work, just 6 years ago? yeah, right. Most people can remember where they made major purchases for decades.

As a final protection for yourself you could ask the vendor to take out an indemnity policy against the work being found to be substandard or non-compliant. Ask your solicitor about this.

Oh, don't discuss any findings with the vendor. it all goes through the solicitors. If you put evidence across that the vendor is lying, his solicitor will encourage him to be truthful.

Look on the back of the sockets and switches. There is rarely a molded date clock, but manufacturers usually put a 'quality checked' label on and sometimes this has a date or batch code as above.

 

[sellers]

Let me just add something here,

whether the work has been done by a part p spark or not, who actually cares? Not meant in an offensive way, but no one is bothered, the council aren't, the estate agent, the seller, in this case you the buyer are, (which is very rare), it shows how part p is nothing more than a money making exercise, which is not enforced in anyway! Only the scheme providers and we the sparks care. They are the ones who are receiving and we are the one spending the money!

Sorry to jump on your thread with a bit of negativity about the part p scheme. Personally in your position I would assess the installation, if any doubts get a PIR by a spark, but only for the integrity of the installation, not for the part p fiasco. If you want to barter some money off the house, by all means play the part p card.

 

[Robin Spark]

Mortgage surveyor charged me

 

[spinlondon]

I'm with sellers on this.

If it turns out at a later date that the vendor has lied, whatever date it is determined that the work was conducted, will implicate him rather than you.

He will then be liable for any fine.