PIR at factory

[Lee321]

your 1000% wrong about seperate reports for each db init

thats if your suggesting each db is the origin of the installation which i think you are but they are not

 

[sellers]

I would like to point out that it is not 1 periodic per db, it is one periodic per installation. ie, Source, sub mains, db's, final circuits. One periodic, many distribution board schedules, test certs and observations.

 

[kme]

Thanks for the comments, Init.

Can I therefore ask you to provide me with the data you used to determine that every CU or DB needs a seperate certificate? Because I`ve always provided one per "installation"; i.e. from a REC metering position onwards is one install, AFAIAC

Thanks

KME

 

[sellers]

damn too slow! all down to my 'a' button not working and having to copy and paste every time i need one!!

 

[Lee321]

damn too slow! all down to my 'a' button not working and having to copy and paste every time i need one!!

bad work man blames his tools :_| :x

 

[initforthemoney]

Thanks for the comments, Init.Can I therefore ask you to provide me with the data you used to determine that every CU or DB needs a seperate certificate? Because I`ve always provided one per "installation"; i.e. from a REC metering position onwards is one install, AFAIAC

Thanks

KME

Ok.

If we had a CU with several final circuits that included a submain to another CU.

Although the supply characteristics will be the same, the second DB will have different Ze (Zdb if you will) for eg.

Therefore, a separate report will need to be compiled for the sub main CU. ( therefore, installation).

Similar to a factory with several DB's.

There could be 2 3 phase DB's and a single phase DB. In effect, three installations, which would require separate reports.

I think that makes sense. It does in my brain

Edit: each DB has its OWN origin ie main switch.

 

[Lee321]

this thread ain't over yet . mahusive pop corn on order :_|

 

[wozz]

i knew when this thread is started it was going to become a battle of definitions just like it does on other forums.

This one is very open to interpretation because of the definition of installation, the vagueness of the regulation. On one side no main switch just one in each fuseboard, and on the other side must have a main switch therefore leaving alot of shower/garage ect CU non complain and this is a fairly common practice ( i realise common doesnt make in compliant)

Thats how i look at it, tell me if im way off the mark...

 

[Lee321]

i guess wozz.

altho i don't see it as vague (imho)

I'd class an installation as every DNO supply point.

so if a property has 1 head its 1. if it had 2 or 3 and so on only then would i class that as multiple installations within a single property.

but a large factory with 1 head and 50 db's i'd not be writing the clients address out 50 times and have 50 serial numbers for 1 property/client

 

[Andy™]

opcorn

 

[initforthemoney]

I'd class an installation as every DNO supply point.

The DNO do not do installations.

Anything south of their equipment is an installation.

Therefore, if there are two DB's or CU's with 40 circuits each, regardless of how many supplies there are, that would be regarded as 2 installations ad i would compile 2 separate reports.

After all, the Ze could be different between the 2 for whatever reason.

 

[initforthemoney]

You have been told off before about not qualifying your answers. Why am i signalled out for this when i do, and from what i can see there are others that dont?Now that is a worrying attitude. I suggest you stop and take a look at yourself. You are not the best at getting your point across, or the best at referencing your answers or the best at explaining things.Mr GH stated that he was the best ever born. I was merely pointing out that he wasnt. Again, why am i singled out for stating this?

My red.

 

[Sidewinder]

init,

When I get assessed by my local area NICEIC engineer on PIR's he is happy for me to do one PIT for a premises as long as it only has a single DNO supply point.

I complete the 6 NICEIC pages of th PIR forms (IPN2) and provide continuations sheets for every subsequent DB schedule of circuit details and a schedule of test results (ISN2). Plus the continuation of observations if used, can't remeber the form designation of these. However, mine normaly have an engineering report with them which runs to many pages and includes the relevant NIC forms.

This is also how we were taught at college, how several of our learned friends on here do of which ever denomination they belong to all be it with their own forms. Even if you look at the IET model forms they are not designed to be completed for each individual board in full, just the cct details & tests.

It is also how many of my colleagues within the IET complete their paperwork also.

I would NOT want to fill in multiple certificates with different serial numbers for a single PIR the thread of the purpose of the report could be lost.

I am submitting an engineering report on the PIR just done and I have utilised the NIC cert number as part of that to tie the things together.

 

[Lee321]

strange virtually all replies have the same trend as above

i.e the right one :Salute

i bet sw didn't even read post 29 when he wrote that and its nearly word for word

 

[wozz]

ok heres another point then, the OP is asking in regard to a PIR if one is defiantly required you would code this 2/4?

The improvement required being the installation of a main switch.

Same situation in a house with a shower fuseboard still code it?

And what if the house has a off peak fuseboard does it get coded as two fuseboard and no single point of isolation?

 

[Sidewinder]

Forgot about the OP, did not read the whole thread, and forgot a lot of what I read!

Code 4 for no single point of isolation at least.

One of the issues with the coding numbers, its NOT a 1 because no imminent danger.

Can't be a 3 as the situation is obvious.

Code 2 seems a bit harsh for it to me.

Yes it should be there, however, all final ccts can be isolated at the individual DB's.

The consumer should not be messing around prior to the DB origin.

If there is a dangerous situation then in an emergency pull the DNO fuse.

Best practice yes, code 2 I don't think so.

I would always put an isolator on every new install if the DNO / metering operator did not, which in our neck of the woods they seem to and for what they charge to add on it's peanuts again around here.

IF you look up the regs quoted earlier and the definition of installation etc. in the brb they are open to interpretation.

You could try the GN's? 5 I think Isolation & Switching. May have mine out later will look if I get a chance but a bit manic at the mo. It's GN2, shows how good my memory is on times, have a few things to do then if I get chance I'll have a look.

 

[initforthemoney]

I wouldnt even code it.

 

[sellers]

The DNO do not do installations.Anything south of their equipment is an installation.

Therefore, if there are two DB's or CU's with 40 circuits each, regardless of how many supplies there are, that would be regarded as 2 installations ad i would compile 2 separate reports.

After all, the Ze could be different between the 2 for whatever reason.

ze is external earth loop impedance! you don't get a ze result for submains. thats the zs of the board or zdb!

an installation is 'an assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated charactoristics to fulfil specific purposes'

which doesn't take a genious to work out that a single DB isn't classed as an installation if unless there is only one with one source!

 

[kme]

I know - lets have a poll

 

[initforthemoney]

ze is external earth loop impedance! you don't get a ze result for submains. thats the zs of the board or zdb!an installation is 'an assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated charactoristics to fulfil specific purposes'

which doesn't take a genious to work out that a single DB isn't classed as an installation if unless there is only one with one source!

Hmmmm lets see.

One DB 25mm tails 16mm cpc.

Another DB 16mm tails 16mm cpc.

Ze the same?