Portable tool station elecctrics, Saftey advice help

[Sidewinder]

No worries M107, what PLC is it you have?

 

[M107]

None yet, but this thread got me looking at PLC's & on line simulators.

I was thinking using proximity switches & logic to allow one tool to operate only when other proximity switches are closed (tools in a holder) so of 4x proximity switches as inputs, 3x have to be closed to allow any 1x output to work .

Much the same as the theory behind the easy switch system & contactors.

Then thought I know very little about PLC's...... & it would give me something to do learning about them while Mrs 107 watches carp TV

 

[Sidewinder]

I'm a ladder logic kind of guy, Canoe I know likes his statement list.

The machines I worked with mostly had 2 kinds of programmes and anything clever was not done in the PLC, and apart from that, there was no facility for really clever stuff, it was a very early integrated motion control.

 

[Andy™]

None yet, but this thread got me looking at PLC's & on line simulators.

I was thinking using proximity switches & logic to allow one tool to operate only when other proximity switches are closed (tools in a holder) so of 4x proximity switches as inputs, 3x have to be closed to allow any 1x output to work .

Much the same as the theory behind the easy switch system & contactors.

Then thought I know very little about PLC's...... & it would give me something to do learning about them while Mrs 107 watches carp TV

should be fairly easy (i think!) to do that with a PLC, output 1 is on if only input 1 is, same for 2 3 &4

 

[Lurch]

I thought I would get help here, as electrics need to be safe & not taken the mick out NOR for granted of, so for those two above I will have to ignore them

Probably best I don't reply then. If you know so much why bother coming here and asking for help?

 

[Welshdragon]

Probably best I don't reply then. If you know so much why bother coming here and asking for help?

As I clearly stated

Hi Sidewinder,

Thank you for welcoming me.

I thought I would get help here,

I had mistakenly took the references to taking courses as taking the mick, to which, Evans Electric helped to clear up, hence that was put right, to which I had indeed apologised for my mistake.....

Thank you for clearing that up Evans Electric

Apologies for seeing it that way, as I don't have time to go on courses especially in the foreseeable future, but I do share a rented space (long term contract), with some people that like to use & abuse anyone else's kit baring their own, when they think we are not looking, the aforementioned key switch idea has been tried by others & they get overridden, so the remote idea is the route I ideally would like to go down tbh.

Alternate suggestions that does not involve going on courses will be considered.....

 

[Lurch]

I had mistakenly took the references to taking courses as taking the mick,

OK.

 

[Welshdragon]

I dislike both of those types of device, and the second one is not legal for sale for definite.

If I was doing this I would design from first principles, but, you are going extremely complex for something that is not needed really?

I would always rate any gear greater than that of the potential supply capacity as it were, so @ 13A I would be looking to > 13A rating, such as you say 16A.

The RCD plug you link to has a built in NVR capability, which is the non-latching part of the description.

Well if that case this UK based company should be reported http://www.poolewood.co.uk/acatalog/No_Volt_Release_Switches.html

Which NVR start stop with emergency stop would you recommend please.....??

I had a gut instinct that 8A would be too low.

My understanding of the NLO RCD Plug is that once set, any & all connected devices would work & not cut off the other 3 & could potentially have unwanted power up, hence the requirement for a secondary NVR switch with emergency stop & to only have power to one unit at a time with all others closed off, as quite aptly M107 stated

I was thinking using proximity switches & logic to allow one tool to operate only when other proximity switches are closed (tools in a holder) so of 4x proximity switches as inputs, 3x have to be closed to allow any 1x output to work .

Much the same as the theory behind the easy switch system & contactors.

 

[Sidewinder]

Well if that case this UK based company should be reported http://www.poolewood.co.uk/acatalog/No_Volt_Release_Switches.html

Which NVR start stop with emergency stop would you recommend please.....??

I had a gut instinct that 8A would be too low.

My understanding of the NLO RCD Plug is that once set, any & all connected devices would work & not cut off the other 3 & could potentially have unwanted power up, hence the requirement for a secondary NVR switch with emergency stop & to only have power to one unit at a time with all others closed off, as quite aptly M107 stated

Yes they should, however it is a waste of time reporting them no-one has the money to chase them.

The device does not comply with BS EN ISO 13850:2015.

I've tried to get Amazon to sort similar out and I'm currently on to Trading Standards to sort out illegal product sold by Amazon, trouble is, there is no will, because there is no money, and these companies are just too powerful.

I have reported dodgy product to Screwfix, also, and they do nothing, too powerful to be bothered.

A friend of mine has reported dodgy compliance to RS, nothing has been done, however, he did get a concerned response which is more than Screwfix have done.

The issue is because these companies consider themselves above the law, and, have no idea about product compliance, and the laws around it.

Along with the market surveillance authorities not having the resources to manage it.

8A is more than enough for the power tools you are using, but, I said, that I would personally over engineer it, to carry greater than the possible maximum current.

I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph.

 

[apprentice87]

I can tell you from past experience that trading standards are simply not interested in getting involved with ANYTHING where the person involved has the ability to say, right oh. see you in court. They WILL go after people at car boot sales, as they think they can frighten them, but no matter how much proof you have, they will REFUSE to act if they think it MIGHT cost them money...

john..

 

[Sidewinder]

I can tell you from past experience that trading standards are simply not interested in getting involved with ANYTHING where the person involved has the ability to say, right oh. see you in court. They WILL go after people at car boot sales, as they think they can frighten them, but no matter how much proof you have, they will REFUSE to act if they think it MIGHT cost them money...

john..

I know John, and that is simply wrong!

 

[Welshdragon]

Yes they should, however it is a waste of time reporting them no-one has the money to chase them.

The device does not comply with BS EN ISO 13850:2015.

I've tried to get Amazon to sort similar out and I'm currently on to Trading Standards to sort out illegal product sold by Amazon, trouble is, there is no will, because there is no money, and these companies are just too powerful.

I have reported dodgy product to Screwfix, also, and they do nothing, too powerful to be bothered.

A friend of mine has reported dodgy compliance to RS, nothing has been done, however, he did get a concerned response which is more than Screwfix have done.

The issue is because these companies consider themselves above the law, and, have no idea about product compliance, and the laws around it.

Along with the market surveillance authorities not having the resources to manage it.

8A is more than enough for the power tools you are using, but, I said, that I would personally over engineer it, to carry greater than the possible maximum current.

I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph.

So I get this right I need a product that is ( BS EN ISO 13850:2015) compliant, can you explain briefly in laymans terms, about BS EN ISO 13850:2015 for me please.....

What relative products do you know of that are BS EN ISO 13850:2015 compliant, that you could point me to.....

I will try to explain it a bit better, if I can, with a scenario.....

My understanding of the NLO RCD Plug is that once set, any & all connected devices would work & not cut off the other 3 & could potentially have unwanted power up, hence the requirement for a secondary NVR switch with emergency stop & to only have power to one unit at a time with all others closed off, as quite aptly M107 stated

You have 1 x 4 gang extension lead that is fitted with a NCO RCD Plug like I linked to earlier, with 4 devices plugged into the extension lead, each device can power up without the other devices being affected until it is tripped or unplugged, hence all four devices can be used at the same time.

I am wanting a way to prevent at least 3 devices being able to power up & to only allow one device at a time to power up with the use of only 1 plug & independent switching, with also the added protection to prevent any devices from potentially auto starting, which is where the separate NVR with emergency stop would be of benefit, but of course as you pointed out I would need one that is BS EN ISO 13850:2015 compliant, but I also want the independent switching to be done by remote.....

Hope I've managed to explain it better for you & hope M107's input helps to explain it aswell.....

I was thinking using proximity switches & logic to allow one tool to operate only when other proximity switches are closed (tools in a holder) so of 4x proximity switches as inputs, 3x have to be closed to allow any 1x output to work .

 

[Sidewinder]

I am really struggling, to understand why you want to make something so complex?

I need to understand what is needed and why to recommend what I would consider to be the optimum equipment.

Compliant equipment, you need to look to competent suppliers, in no particular order, such as Siemens, Schneider, ABB, etc. there are others, these are just 3 examples of the big players.

13850 covers only the stop button, and it's actuation, I am really getting concerned why you are so worried about something for personal & DIY use?