Problem of the week, too many wires in a socket.

[apprentice87]

Hi Paul,

I can see a bit better now!!!!

Here is the contraption concerned!!

View attachment 2775

Lust lust!!!!! ha ha

Apparently it will cut 18mm plate. Personally though, for anything thicker than about 8mm, I would much rather O/A, either hand held, or with my Pug, but there you are!!

Very impressive bit of kit though, best thing is, that you can use templates made from simple cardboard and just go round them, oh, and of course it cuts ally and stainless too, and galvanised sheets without wrecking the galvanising too much!!

I also bought this swing head bandsaw!!!

View attachment 2776

Even more lust!!!! ha ha!!

The saw came from a training place where it had only been used to demonstrate the process to people before they went on to be trained to use monstrously large ones!!

For bar stock, my Qualters and Smith hacksaw is the business, but for box section, the band saw is the thing!!

It has two speeds, [two speed motor] a proper coolant system, cam operated quick action vice, it is great!!!

The Capacity is as follows:-

At 90 degrees - 225mm dia. tube, 200mm box section, 250mm x 150mm rectangle

At 45 degrees - 160mm dia. tube, 155mm box section, 160mm x 120mm rectangle

At 60 degrees - 100mm dia. tube, 100mm box section, 100mm rectangle

So, that will do me!!!!

Love my new toys!!!!

john..

 

[roys]

John, Stop buying so many nice toys, we will all get workshop envy

 

[apprentice87]

I know I know...It is that blasted Ebay!!!!

Least the arc eye has gone away now!!! Was not as bad as i thought, but i will not be peering down into the kerf to see what is happening again!!!! Be wearing my welding helmet too!!

john..

 

[Jono Pashley]

Bah..the only new toy ive collected in the last week is one of these...

Faithfull Earth Rammer 10Lb With Metal Shaft: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

[wozz]

There is an ordinary light switch (6A rating) feeding the PIR light, another reason why it was wrong to be fed directly from the ring final.Yes it's not ideal having one FCU feeding two things, but remember, I was there to just do a simple swap of the switches and sockets so wanted the quickest solution to the problem.

I could be missing something here but why is the switch itself wrong?

 

[ProDave]

I could be missing something here but why is the switch itself wrong?

There was nothing wrong with the switch itself.

It was the fact that originally it was spurred (as a second spur) directly off a ring final on a 30A MCB.

So not only was the 1.5mm cable too small for the 30A MCB, so was the 6A switch.

Now the whole lot is fed from the FCU, with a 5A fuse in it, it's all okay.

 

[wozz]

What I couldn't get my head around was how could the 1.5 branch of the circuit could draw enough current to trouble the switch?

 

[ProDave]

What I couldn't get my head around was how could the 1.5 branch of the circuit could draw enough current to trouble the switch?

Normally it couldn't, but if the PIR light had failed, the fault current would have to trip a 30A MCB which would almost certainly weld the switch shut, if not melt it, and wouldn't do much good for the cable either.

 

[binky]

Hand-grenade time -

1/ the 6A switch is never going to see 32A as the outside light only ever pulls 2A. So what's the problem

2/ Wouldn't have been easier to have just changed the light switch for an FCU.

3/ I would suggest the argument is non opened to non-students.

Now you will have to hassle me to come back with a technical publication that I read some time ago, as I am a bit busy at the moment, but actually the light isn't incorrect becuase the cable is capable of carrying the load of the light connected, albeit I would regard it bad practice. Discuss

 

[Apache]

1/ the 6A switch is never going to see 32A as the outside light only ever pulls 2A. So what's the problem

Of all the short circuit problems I would bet outside lights are right up there at the top of the list. The problem not when it works but when it fills with water.

 

[ProDave]

2/ Wouldn't have been easier to have just changed the light switch for an FCU.

The main issue was 4 wires in the socket, so TWO spurs from the socket. So changing the light switch for an FCU would not have fixed that problem.

 

[binky]

Of all the short circuit problems I would bet outside lights are right up there at the top of the list. The problem not when it works but when it fills with water.

and it would trip MCB as per any other size cable..

 

[binky]

The main issue was 4 wires in the socket, so TWO spurs from the socket. So changing the light switch for an FCU would not have fixed that problem.

thought you were going to go on about fusing cables. Can't find technical report I was on about which is a shame cos it's a very interesting read with lots of references to BS7671. If someone has time to search it out, it was an answer to why lighting for commercial premises can be connected in 1mm flex, from a pendant or marshalling box, on a circuit with 20A MCB and still be compliant with regs

 

[amateursparky]

JUst like to shave a rant on what I've found today. So am a electrician mate ofr the day. My gaffer found 3ohms of resistence when he tested between the L - L at the CU.

Here I am going round all the sockets trying to find a loose connection somewhere. There were a few connections where either the screw was stripped/ not fully in the terminal as it should.

Plus some of the sockets needed replacing as they were either cracked/ the switch had been painted permnamently in the on position.

In the kitchen I find a socket with the exact same thing. Two spur FCU's off a ring main.

 

[MSH1601]

I may be wrong here, but would the answer be to disconnect the 1.5 from the socket and tell the customer it's wrong and a potential fire hazard. Then advise the customer of a price to reconnect it correctly?!

 

[binky]

Why is it a fire hazard the 1.5 is seeing enough loading to overload the cable, and is never likely to. I really must dig out that article, it explains in great detail why the last statement is correct.

Whilst working in many an old property I have frequently come across sockets spurred off cookers, showers etc etc. In one house the cooker circuit was tapped into in 2 places for sockets, one set of boiler controls and behind the cooker was feeding the shower as well. Yet despite all the stuff about circuit overload protection and fuse ratings, I've never seen a burnt out cable in these circumstances which left me wondering for many years, why so few houses have burn't down!!!

 

[steptoe]

from my experience the biggest cause by far of burnt cables is loose connections,

showers are particularly prone to this for some reason, maybe its just poor workmanship trying to get 2x10mm into one of them square switches and deep single box,

I much prefer the crabtree type.

 

[binky]

Found it....

http://download.hager.com/hager.uk/files_download/guides/klik_knowledge_is_power_guide.pdf

a really interesting technical read with lots of references to the regs.