Pv & smoke alarms !!!!!

[binky]

Who else upsets them then !!!! :run

Forgotten, think it was large quantities of flourescents or lighting controls. Been a bit too busy with PV to read any AICO literature lately. But either way, I can't understand why a reputable manufacturer like AICO can't make non-sensitive kit. Now as it happens, my own AICOs haven't caught fire yet so maybe it's more of an ar*e covering exercise, and I don't really see how any inverter which is G83 compliant could do anything that causes trouble to any other mains equipment.

 

[wozz]

If they have to design a new alarm this will cost money and have a very narrow market compared to non PV installs.

 

[ProDave]

The washing machine Dave mentions above will be to do with the sparking of the brushes on the commutator, that produces a lot of distortion for that type of motor, the washing machine also has the tiniest suppressor not worth a mention

Actually no, it's a brand spanking new Daewoo direct drive machine. For those that don't know, it means the motor is quite a large diameter affair that directly drives the drum, rather than driving through a belt, so runs at a much slower speed than a conventional WM motor. It's almost certainly run as a closed loop servo motor of some form. The horrible current waveform looks like phase angle firing with little or no filtering.

 

[gavindrummond]

What's more of a priority is risk of fire and death so I would suggest the pv equipment be made more safer and not the smoke alarms.

 

[binky]

What's more of a priority is risk of fire and death so I would suggest the pv equipment be made more safer and not the smoke alarms.

don't buy Chinese inverters!!

 

[kme]

Right - update.

The installer info I had on the van is from:

Mains 146 Optical Smoke Alarm + Alkaline Battery

Now EI are saying that the sine wave must be <5% THD - and have specified renewables` inverters as being an issue!

It has also been said (and I tend to believe the source), that one of the Aico top guys says the distortion can "unsolder the PCB" !!!!!

So we now need manufacturers` data on levels of THD from their kit - which i do believe is a required piece of info for the declaration of conformity.

 

[Jono Pashley]

SolarEdge state <3% on their technical info

Diel Ako seem to be <3% from what i can find also

 

[ProDave]

Right - update.The installer info I had on the van is from:

Mains 146 Optical Smoke Alarm + Alkaline Battery

Now EI are saying that the sine wave must be <5% THD - and have specified renewables` inverters as being an issue!

It has also been said (and I tend to believe the source), that one of the Aico top guys says the distortion can "unsolder the PCB" !!!!!

So we now need manufacturers` data on levels of THD from their kit - which i do believe is a required piece of info for the declaration of conformity.

I don't believe that for one second. Or IF it's somehow possible for harmonics to "unsolder a PCB" then there's something seriously wrong with their design and I would not trust it.

Do these people realise that they are making themselves out to look stupid and / or making out their products to be rubbish. That's NOT something you want to find out about a smoke alarm which is something you want to be able to rely upon.

I stick to my original statement. This thread only serves to inform us which make of smoke alarm to avoid, for fear of it's PCB un soldering itself.

 

[Jono Pashley]

Sad thing is Dave, Aico have been my prefered manufacturer for some time..

 

[Steve3948]

Sad thing is Dave, Aico have been my prefered manufacturer for some time..

In my area it's about the only ones they carry on the shelf...

 

[binky]

makes you wonder about other makes and whether they also have problems, or just don't talk about it. Perhaps AICO are being highly responsible by talking about a potential issue. Unsoldering a PCB does seem highly unlikely???

 

[binky]

Hence I haven't burnt any houses down yet ray

 

[philbas]

Your not trying hard enough

 

[Sidewinder]

OK, lets hang on a minute.

This WILL end up as a contract law dispute if it ever gets that far.

Which was installed first, smokes or PV?

When either was installed, NOT NOW, what did the makers guidance state?

That will be what matters.

IF you installed a solar PV system into a house that had Aico smokes and when the solar PV was installed the Aico instructions did NOT include the solar PV warning, then regardless of anything that follows no issues.

If when the solar was installed the smokie makers data said no PV, then deep doo doo.

If someone came along after the solar was installed and installed smokes that were incompatible, their issue.

End Of Story.

Your Professional Indemnity Insurer would win this for you as they would subpoena the makers of both sets of equipment to provide the information that was in force at the time of your design.

 

[ivor dispatch]

OK, lets hang on a minute.This WILL end up as a contract law dispute if it ever gets that far.

Which was installed first, smokes or PV?

When either was installed, NOT NOW, what did the makers guidance state?

That will be what matters.

IF you installed a solar PV system into a house that had Aico smokes and when the solar PV was installed the Aico instructions did NOT include the solar PV warning, then regardless of anything that follows no issues.

If when the solar was installed the smokie makers data said no PV, then deep doo doo.

If someone came along after the solar was installed and installed smokes that were incompatible, their issue.

End Of Story.

Your Professional Indemnity Insurer would win this for you as they would subpoena the makers of both sets of equipment to provide the information that was in force at the time of your design.

Are Aico recommending only a grid tied gen and not a stand alone gen .

Just a thought

but lets not stop the witch hunt.

 

[Sidewinder]

Are Aico recommending only a grid tied gen and not a stand alone gen .Just a thought

but lets not stop the witch hunt.

What are you on about?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

What is it in the Aico's that they are worried about & not in all the other mains powered electronics such as Pir detectors, remote dimmers etc ?

 

[Manator]

What is it in the Aico's that they are worried about & not in all the other mains powered electronics such as Pir detectors, remote dimmers etc ?

Nice observation, I am perplexed having never heard of this issue, but would be very interested in the findings if ever published.

 

[kme]

IF you installed a solar PV system into a house that had Aico smokes and when the solar PV was installed the Aico instructions did NOT include the solar PV warning, then regardless of anything that follows no issues.

Fair enough. I don`t think most members would argue that point

If someone came along after the solar was installed and installed smokes that were incompatible, their issue.

Again, agreed

If when the solar was installed the smokie makers data said no PV, then deep doo doo.

Now here I see an issue.

Are we to say that ANYTHING connected to an installation must be acceptable to the manufacturers of ALL the kit currently in the property; or at least not warned against in that particular items` instructions?

So, before you fit a new piece of kit (like, for example, a washing machine with direct drive motor), you have to check every existing item in the same premises, to see if they issued a caveat against such an item being installed? That is F`in crackers mate, and simply could not happen, as you are unlikely to have access to all any installation instructions in a domestic premises; and if your commercial / industrial does have them, you could be there for weeks, checking for incompatibilities between pieces of kit.

Am I being naive stupid - I thought that "CE" marking, and conformity certs were designed to give an acceptable standard of, amongst other things, external influences?

FFS, why would I even look at the smokes in a property I was adding PV to? I may not even access the dwelling itself!!!!!

End Of Story.

Your Professional Indemnity Insurer would win this for you as they would subpoena the makers of both sets of equipment to provide the information that was in force at the time of your design.

 

[steptoe]

shouldnt you have a little bit on your contract for supplying the PV that it is the property owners responsibility to ensure all the equipment within the property is compatible with the specified inverter/PV kit you are fitting?

I think that is going to have to be the get out clause for the future.