R1+R2 in metal conduit

[binky]

Im sorry if I keep banging on,but it makes you wonder sometimes if someone like that has actually ever seen a galv conduit job.

I do some factory work for a large multi national company that works 24/7/365 and the conduit is as new(bit dirty/dusty perhaps but mechanically sound),

so it is never an issue as to the continuity.

.

Whilst I seldom come across conduit work, even I know it isn't a problem (especially if galvanised in factory systems). But I have also come across rusted out steel systems in houses and other properties where clearly the continuity is compromised by condition of the conduit, which I think is what the poster is kind of referring to. Like everthing else the proof of the system is in the testing, and what tests OK is satisfactory even if not to our personnel tastes.

 

[Andy™]

Whilst I seldom come across conduit work, even I know it isn't a problem (especially if galvanised in factory systems). But I have also come across rusted out steel systems in houses and other properties where clearly the continuity is compromised by condition of the conduit, which I think is what the poster is kind of referring to. Like everthing else the proof of the system is in the testing, and what tests OK is satisfactory even if not to our personnel tastes.

but he was saying he would fail it without testing to see if it was satisfactory!

 

[electrizion]

I did not state that i would fail it without testing merely that I would fail it, in actual fact if no cpc was present in the conduit i would give it a code 2 regardless of the impedance. A periodic test serves as a report of the installations condition at the time of the test and to identify any items that are likely to cause problems in the future.

I would not certificate an installation with the knowledge that it could be up to five years before it would be tested again if I had no confidence in the method of installation. In my opinion a screwed conduit installion without a seperate cpc does not give me this cofidence

 

[Andy™]

I did not state that i would fail it without testing merely that I would fail it, in actual fact if no cpc was present in the conduit i would give it a code 2 regardless of the impedance. A periodic test serves as a report of the installations condition at the time of the test and to identify any items that are likely to cause problems in the future.I would not certificate an installation with the knowledge that it could be up to five years before it would be tested again if I had no confidence in the method of installation. In my opinion a screwed conduit installion without a seperate cpc does not give me this cofidence

Then why bother going to all the testing if your going to fail it. there are many situations where its obvious its no good and needs code 1, but there are also many conditions where its in very good condition and need no attention.

If you dont think its going to last 5 years til next test, you are allowed to change the time to say 3 years, or 2 years or even less

giving something a code 2 regardless of any other info/testing just shows even more how your not competent to carry out such inspections

 

[electrizion]

You obviously are a far better electrician than me or just another keyboard warrior.

I have given my opinion and the standard that I work to because you disagree you think its appropiate to question my competence Whether this is because you lack experience or are out of your depth i do not know.

 

[Apache]

Moderator/ Admin - it's kicking off.................

 

[Andy™]

You obviously are a far better electrician than me or just another keyboard warrior.I have given my opinion and the standard that I work to because you disagree you think its appropiate to question my competence Whether this is because you lack experience or are out of your depth i do not know.

i have to admit i havent done as much with steel conduit as others on the forum have, but at least i have the knowledge/experience to actually test the conduit before failing it, where as you seem to just want to fail it just because it doesnt have a separate earth, even though its still fully compliant and can be just as safe

 

[electrizion]

i have to admit i havent done as much with steel conduit as others on the forum have, but at least i have the knowledge/experience to actually test the conduit before failing it, where as you seem to just want to fail it just because it doesnt have a separate earth, even though its still fully compliant and can be just as safe

Don`t want to keep on about this but nowhere in my posts does it state that i do not test the installation merely that i would fail it or code 2 it because it does not have a seperate cpc thus

1. a surface installation where i could get visual confirmation of the condition of the installation in addition to test results code 2

2. an embedded installion where i could not get visual indication of the condition of the conduit code 1

Modern conduit installation are normally installed with seperate cpc`s and this is considered good practice

These are my opinions and I got them myself ; \

 

[Andy™]

Don`t want to keep on about this but nowhere in my posts does it state that i do not test the installation merely that i would fail it or code 2 it because it does not have a seperate cpc thus1. a surface installation where i could get visual confirmation of the condition of the installation in addition to test results code 2

2. an embedded installion where i could not get visual indication of the condition of the conduit code 1

Modern conduit installation are normally installed with seperate cpc`s and this is considered good practice

These are my opinions and I got them myself ; \

so what if you visually inspect it and its OK with no sign of corrosion, and all readings are acceptable,

if it was a new install, i would also be installing an earth along with phase/neutral

 

[green-hornet]

Personally I would code 4.

Providing there was good continuity.

However I installed many a conduit only system in the past when it was justly approved as the best way, total earthing throughout the whole installation with no adverse effects, and so easily cross bonded to all services and steel work.

It may be 14th edition or 15th edition but still constructed to the relevent regulations at the time of installation.

Not really worthy of a code 2 unless you have identified some faults.

 

[The Godfather]

Moderator/ Admin - it's kicking off.................

(Smiles)

Well, not quite.

The Godfather

 

[Andy™]

(Smiles)Well, not quite.

The Godfather

i think apache was thinking out loud what he wants to happen

 

[The Godfather]

Personally I would code 4.Providing there was good continuity.

However I installed many a conduit only system in the past when it was justly approved as the best way, total earthing throughout the whole installation with no adverse effects, and so easily cross bonded to all services and steel work.

It may be 14th edition or 15th edition but still constructed to the relevent regulations at the time of installation.

Not really worthy of a code 2 unless you have identified some faults.

The Godfather

 

[electrizion]

Thanks everyone nice little debate and mix of opinions ; -)

 

[Andy™]

Thanks everyone nice little debate and mix of opinions ; -)

Thats what this place is for

 

[ktguk]

remember you need relevent experiance on the type of wiring your testing or the 2391 is pointless, a domestic spark cant go testing a factory because they dont know what their looking at. alot of people seem to think 2391 means you can test everything regardless of your knowledge of that type of system/enviroment

 

[green-hornet]

remember you need relevent experiance on the type of wiring your testing or the 2391 is pointless, a domestic spark cant go testing a factory because they dont know what their looking at. alot of people seem to think 2391 means you can test everything regardless of your knowledge of that type of system/enviroment

Thats very true, and often overlooked when testing any installation.

You must know what your looking at, remember the first part of any inspection is visual, if you have no idea what your looking at your on to a loser right away.

Guiness DrinkGuiness Drink

 

[electrizion]

remember you need relevent experiance on the type of wiring your testing or the 2391 is pointless, a domestic spark cant go testing a factory because they dont know what their looking at. alot of people seem to think 2391 means you can test everything regardless of your knowledge of that type of system/enviroment

I cannot see the relevence to this thread ?

However I am fortunate enough to know what I am looking at and what prompted me to reply to the original post was that I had just visited a 200 bedroom hotel in Plymouth to follow up on a Cornhill insurance report.

The report stated that there were high loop impedances to several areas throughout the hotel. I found that the original installation was conduit but the bedrooms had recently been refurbished using T&E Where I was able to get visual access to the conduit i found in many case it had corroded and in some areas completly rusted through probaly due to the salt air and the fact that the core of the installation is 25+ years old. Well to cut a long story short the local outfit who did the refurb and certificated it had in their wisdom decided the best way to ensure continuity is to wrap a length of 1.5 singles around the pipe either side of the break or corroded part no clamp just wrap it and tighten with a pair of pliars. Cornhill on test around 10% for their report and in many cases the impedance was within spec with the wire wrap in place. However the logistics of testing every bedroom in a hotel which is in use are difficult to say the least so we are working on the assumption that this scenario repeats itself throughout the hotel and it was priced on that basis.

Has for domestic sparks whatever that term means I cannot see how any electrician would have major problems with a commercial installation there is no mystery to it but maybe one of these domestic sparks would like to add to this thread? :|

 

[green-hornet]

electrizion

Based on your reply you have now provided more information that was not available to following posters who may have had disagreement with you.

The point of this forum is to help not advise unless advise is spesificaly requested, and is then only subject to personal preference and methods of the individual.

Based on your latest post I personally would request that the system was upgraded or even required urgent attention, as I believe as you described it would.

Please do not take any comments as personal I never do, I have been proved wrong on a few occasions, which is why I am a member of this forum.

Any question or reply to a question should have a full explanation, otherwise we could all make the same mistake.

I am sure the other posters on this thread would now agree with you, but based on your first post would not.

Thank you for giving the extra information and I for one would admit on this occasion you are correct.

 

[batty]

I cannot see the relevence to this thread ?However I am fortunate enough to know what I am looking at and what prompted me to reply to the original post was that I had just visited a 200 bedroom hotel in Plymouth to follow up on a Cornhill insurance report.

The report stated that there were high loop impedances to several areas throughout the hotel. I found that the original installation was conduit but the bedrooms had recently been refurbished using T&E Where I was able to get visual access to the conduit i found in many case it had corroded and in some areas completly rusted through probaly due to the salt air and the fact that the core of the installation is 25+ years old. Well to cut a long story short the local outfit who did the refurb and certificated it had in their wisdom decided the best way to ensure continuity is to wrap a length of 1.5 singles around the pipe either side of the break or corroded part no clamp just wrap it and tighten with a pair of pliars. Cornhill on test around 10% for their report and in many cases the impedance was within spec with the wire wrap in place. However the logistics of testing every bedroom in a hotel which is in use are difficult to say the least so we are working on the assumption that this scenario repeats itself throughout the hotel and it was priced on that basis.

Has for domestic sparks whatever that term means I cannot see how any electrician would have major problems with a commercial installation there is no mystery to it but maybe one of these domestic sparks would like to add to this thread? :|

I have just done a toilet refurb at a local conference centre. The original wiring was in galv conduit with no cpc. The work I have done is in tw/e and been joined to that conduit. It has all been tested and all loops are easily within tolerence of circuit breakers are you saying I should have ripped conduits out and started again.

Batty