RCBO advice

[Fleeting]

Where do we stand with 'badge engineering ' MCBs, wholesalers own brands are just another make with a different logo on, so are surely suitable for mix and match?

Some makes are direct copies of popular brands like MK, so fit perfectly, but I would say are not engineered to the same standards, so are no doubt fail the standards as pointed out by @Sidewinder

Not wholesaler own brand but the only time I use a different manufacturer is Schneider for Merlin Gerin and Square D as they now own the brand and confirm compatibility which to their credit they are still maintaining even for the old QO range.

 

[torbrowser]

What engineering judgement do you use to ascertain it 'fits properly' aside from what some Guide suggests. Or Is this a blind judgement based on this Guide.

Common sense,
It's a bit like pulling your underpants up in the morning, when they only go half way up and your balls come out the sides you know your wife has mixed the pants draw up again, your judgement tells you they don't fit.

 

[Fleeting]

Common sense,
It's a bit like pulling your underpants up in the morning, when they only go half way up and your balls come out the sides you know your wife has mixed the pants draw up again, your judgement tells you they don't fit.

Lack of knowledge is a dangerous thing if you are carrying out EICRs and I hope you are not but unfortunately it is now the way of things. Incompatible is not a new thing I have been quoting it for thirty odd years.

 

[torbrowser]

Quite agree, incompatible components are a bad idea. But don't tell me after 30 years you honestly can't tell when a breaker doesn't fit the board properly.

 

[Fleeting]

Quite agree, incompatible components are a bad idea. But don't tell me after 30 years you honestly can't tell when a breaker doesn't fit the board properly.

There is more to it than it just seeming to fit.

 

[Mike.J]

There is of course a counter argument:

CU boards are tested for compliance by the manufacturer without any units on board i.e. any MCB's etc.
Component parts RCBO's etc are tested individually by the manufacturer for compliance.

Why would putting all perfectly fitting Hager RCBO's into a Wylex board invalidate that compliance? IMO it would not, but a mixing of Hager and Schneider RCBO's or MCB's may due to different pitch's of the terminals either in length or depth and the need to bend rails or busbars, you are then modifying the manufacturers tested unit and that would invalidate the compliance.

Interesting discussion which I am sure will go on for some time.

 

[Murdoch]

Irrespective of the coding/ compatibility where I see the most STILL being done are PV and EV

New "types" of installs yet the training doesn't get to these gimps - that is where the education needs to start or preferably cracked down on.

 

[Sharpend]

I’m sure the jobsworth at the Office would advise any of their installers to utilise an existing or same brand mcb etc, the system falls short because the installation is never checked for compliance after installation.
Most subby electricians don’t give a flying fig and just check it in so it works, whether any test certificate is accurate is usually irrelevant and the certificate doesn’t request make of mcb installed?
So as far as I can see the whole industry needs a shake down. We seem to be inundated with persons who tell us what to do but never actually check for compliance unless something tragic happens.
My answer to them is; go look in the mirror first and ask where it’s gone wrong.

 

[Murdoch]

So as far as I can see the whole industry needs a shake down. We seem to be inundated with persons who tell us what to do but never actually check for compliance unless something tragic happens.

hit, nail and head springs to mind

My answer to them is; go look in the mirror first and ask where it’s gone wrong.

They don't have any mirrors, the last 10 years of updates to the regs have proven that beyond reasonable doubt.

I do suspect that the CPS's review this and other forums, probably even have stooges on them, but their lack of action / improving things goes on and on, like one big gravy train.

And as stated on many occasions, the complicated things get , the less people listen ............

 

[Sharpend]

The truth is over the years society has become more lazy and accustomed to having everything easy, so when anything that challenges the grey matter arises most are not interested.

 

[Murdoch]

The truth is over the years society has become more lazy and accustomed to having everything easy, so when anything that challenges the grey matter arises most are not interested.

I think thats a bit harsh, but those who make decisions do seem to make a mountain out of a mole in either not explaining in a sensible understandable way or worse not really communicating at all

 

[binky]

The truth is over the years society has become more lazy and accustomed to having everything easy, so when anything that challenges the grey matter arises most are not interested.

I wouldn't say that, more that the demand for trades from big builders seems to have pushed standards down to get any muppett qualified. I object to buying the on-site guide, it's full of junk like max Zs figures at 80% of the true value, dumbed down numbers for the incompetent. Look at how many companies have one qualified supervisor, the rest are electrical labourers etc etc. And all this to avoid paying proper wages and make more money for big companies.

And it's not just our industry, Teaching Assistants are another fine example, in fact I would say it's across the board in the UK.

 

[Sharpend]

You clearly haven’t been on many big sites recently (last 5-10yrs) most trades/labour is unskilled unqualified Eastern Europeans, so what does that tell you about the state of our trades?

 

[binky]

You clearly haven’t been on many big sites recently (last 5-10yrs) most trades/labour is unskilled unqualified Eastern Europeans, so what does that tell you about the state of our trades?

Not been on a large site for many years, to me it says good tradesmen don't want to work for low money. I always laugh at the TV when they harp on about skill shortages and the big house builders, it's not rocket science to work out why they can't attract trades.

 

[Sharpend]

The sad thing is making a good wage is not the problem as a spark, in fact it’s quite easy to make a good wage on a building site if a) you are a subby, b) you are good at what you do. The biggest issue is that the builders recruit the lowest skilled person possible for the rest of the jobs.

 

[Mike.J]

Talking to a plumber about two days ago about re-furbishing our shower alcove, he wanted £250.00/day, seems to equate with most on here and their electricians hour rate or thereabouts.

 

[binky]

Talking to a plumber about two days ago about re-furbishing our shower alcove, he wanted £250.00/day, seems to equate with most on here and their electricians hour rate or thereabouts.

I've started charging those sort of rates, everything has gone up, so my rates have done so to match.

 

[Murdoch]

Talking to a plumber about two days ago about re-furbishing our shower alcove, he wanted £250.00/day, seems to equate with most on here and their electricians hour rate or thereabouts.

Thats cheap for a plumber / bathroom fitter - where in the UK are you

 

[Murdoch]

The sad thing is making a good wage is not the problem as a spark, in fact it’s quite easy to make a good wage on a building site if a) you are a subby, b) you are good at what you do. The biggest issue is that the builders recruit the lowest skilled person possible for the rest of the jobs.

Having been in a few new builds recently I do wonder if the sparks have any training or knowledge. Talk about the fewest possible sockets and lights too.

One had a big kitchen diner with all 20 downlights on 1 switch. The customer wasn't impressed when I said I would have to cut lots of holes to split the 20 into 10 + 10

 

[Sharpend]

@Murdoch i suspect that was a small independent build? Local builder and sparks with no planned drawings?