RCD Prtection

[dean mac]

if surface, cable wont need RCD, but socket will need RCD

true

 

[Theorysparky]

if you add to an existing, what you add has to be to new regs. so if you add a new socket its gotta be RCD'd. either by RCD spur, RCD at DB, or RCD socket if cable doesnt need it

Not 100% true 522.6.7 refers

Instructed person

A person adequately advised or supervised by skilled persons to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create

so if the customer is not totally brain dead and is instructed.....

"keep away from that cable route with your hammer and nails"

no rcd required ?

BS7671 is not set in stone on what you can and cannot do

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Not 100% true 522.6.7 refersInstructed person

A person adequately advised or supervised by skilled persons to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create

so if the customer is not totally brain dead and is instructed.....

"keep away from that cable route with your hammer and nails"

no rcd required ?

BS7671 is not set in stone on what you can and cannot do

411.3.3

(i) socket outlets rated not exceeding 20 that are for use by "ordinary persons" and are intended for general use

exception permitted for

(a) skilled or instructed as in some "Commercial or industrial locations!

bog standard domestic socket needs additional RCD protection.

 

[binky]

Forgive me if ive missed something, but the new regs are not retrospective, so if you are adding to existing circuits you cant force client to have rcd protection added to the circuit.Maybee just add disclaimer to cert.

But this work is in a notifiable area, and probably consistes of a bit more than a small mod. Whilst not retrospective there is still an element of bringing upto date, especiall in tennant properties which I suspect these are. Hence also we usually update protective bonding whilst undertaking such works.

 

[mcgaw81]

Well today was interesting, to cut a long story short RCD Protection will be fitted. I will be using the idea spec posted last night with a 40amp 30mA RCD fitted outside board to cover sockets.

And so much for the money problem, i'm getting

 

[NozSpark]

Well today was interesting, to cut a long story short RCD Protection will be fitted. I will be using the idea spec posted last night with a 40amp 30mA RCD fitted outside board to cover sockets. And so much for the money problem, i'm getting

 

[mcgaw81]

Yeah for whole kitchen, ; )

Its turning out to be a worthwhile contract, i've even had to employ someone.

 

[paulh]

As this is notifiable work why don't you land it on the nic/napit/elecsa or whoever and ask them for advice so you can give it to your client in writing if possible? If they won't see sense then go back to the nic etc and wait for the s**t to hit the fan.

or......walk away........or...........do it illegally.

Sometimes you have to stand your ground even if you are worried after all the person following you will certainly drop you in it.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

bog standard domestic socket needs additional RCD protection.

Your almost right, but not quite. For example, You could fit 4 double sockets and need no Rcd protection if they were labelled something like this,

Dedicated sockets. use only correct appliances.

Toaster only.

Kettle only.

Food mixer only.

Blender only.

Microwave only.

Juicer only.

Fridge only.

Bacon slicer only.

; \ ; \

 

[mcgaw81]

As this is notifiable work why don't you land it on the nic/napit/elecsa or whoever and ask them for advice so you can give it to your client in writing if possible? If they won't see sense then go back to the nic etc and wait for the s**t to hit the fan.or......walk away........or...........do it illegally.

Sometimes you have to stand your ground even if you are worried after all the person following you will certainly drop you in it.

Not a problem now mate they have seen sense RCD Protection will be fitted, they have 'found' extra money to add to their budget.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Forgive me if ive missed something, but the new regs are not retrospective, so if you are adding to existing circuits you cant force client to have rcd protection added to the circuit.Maybee just add disclaimer to cert.

Correct but.... I think as Andy C said..

All of your new work must comply with current regs!

Cuz you cannot choose to retrospectively select which regs you new work is done to.

so if some of your NEW cable is buried in a wall less than 50mm deep and not in earthed conduit that needs RCD protection.

If you add a new Socket on, that also needs RCD protection..

Easiest way to do it..

rather than fitting RCD protected FCU's or RCD sockets at various places around the ciruit...

Just RCD protect that circuit you are working on at the CU.. Jobs a goodun!

Whereas...

If you were just doing remedial upgrade work, swapping socket fronts, for new ones, No repositioning.

This IMHO is Like-4-Like replacement..

SO...

no RCD'ing required just note circuit complies with earlier regs,

and NO part P notification.. even if in a kitchen!

Even DIY-BOB is allowed to do it!

The question would be..

what about moving an end-of radial socket outlet back down the cable route..

cable shorter, no repositioning of cables or cable routes..

No added new cables,

just the socket is near the CU along the circuit???? ; \

Do we RCD the cable then... ???

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Your almost right, but not quite. For example, You could fit 4 double sockets and need no Rcd protection if they were labelled something like this,Dedicated sockets. use only correct appliances.

Toaster only.

Kettle only.

Food mixer only.

Blender only.

Microwave only.

Juicer only.

Fridge only.

Bacon slicer only.

; \ ; \

Applaud Smiley:x:^O

As long as they are supplied via surface cables..

or earthed metal conduit. ; \

But them label's look a bit of a bummer on those nice polished chrome kitchen outlets on that beautiful new tiled wall! ; \

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Yeah for whole kitchen, ; )Its turning out to be a worthwhile contract, i've even had to employ someone.

Beer's on you then tonight Mcgaw!?Applaud Smiley

Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink

 

[mcgaw81]

No time for beer mate, just another quick question then off to bed start at 5am tomorrow.

Is there anything that states that kitchen sockets must be on a seperate circuit from the other sockets? I said they didn't as it goes by area covered ie 100m2. Am i correct???

 

[iamatinca]

if i add a spur from a ring circuit for a washing m/c using plastic trunking and mark that skt w/machine do i need a rcd on the ring

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No time for beer mate, just another quick question then off to bed start at 5am tomorrow. Is there anything that states that kitchen sockets must be on a seperate circuit from the other sockets? I said they didn't as it goes by area covered ie 100m2. Am i correct???

You are correct..

It is often considered good practice to separate kitchen & utility areas off

But no regs say you should..

You should just consider the overall loading on each circuit..

e.g

max current capacity's.

cable de-rating,

Typical max load on the circuit relating to the circuit length & thus Volt drop.

As long as all these sort of bits are OK ..

then thats fine.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

if i add a spur from a ring circuit for a washing m/c using plastic trunking and mark that skt w/machine do i need a rcd on the ring

No. as long as new cable not buried in the wall!

you could even put the w/machine into fused spur so no socket..

so no need to label?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No time for beer mate, just another quick question then off to bed start at 5am tomorrow. Is there anything that states that kitchen sockets must be on a seperate circuit from the other sockets? I said they didn't as it goes by area covered ie 100m2. Am i correct???

Just to add

Appendix 15

pg 362 gives guidance on ring circuits..

reg 433.1.5 talks about balance load across circuit so no excessive load for long periods of time!

 

[Apache]

No. as long as new cable not buried in the wall!you could even put the w/machine into fused spur so no socket..

so no need to label?

right ****** when the hose springs a leak and you need to pull it out of the way quickly!

Of if needs repair?

IMO

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

right ****** when the hose springs a leak and you need to pull it out of the way quickly!Of if needs repair?

IMO

Agreed,

Didn't say it was a good solution...

just a way round avoiding RCD's for them who are that way inclined!

which is why I would just RCD the circuit..

far easier!