RCD Prtection

[mcgaw81]

On the kitchen contract i am currently working on I have now come across some properties that have no RCD protection.

The work involved for me is to alter the existing circuit to suit new kitchen, the new wiring is done thru plasterboard walls. I told them I would need to fit a RCD to bring to 17th Edition, or a new D/B, but they said they did not want the extra cost!!

What are my ways around this senario, other properties have had RCBO's fitted at an agreed cost but in these houses they are old Dorman Smith boards which i can't find spares for.

 

[Andy™]

either way, it needs RCD protection or you cannot do the job

If they wont change the CU, you could always pull the ring outside the CU, install an RCD in small enclosure and use some 4 or 6mm and connect to MCB/fuse etc

or tell whoever said they wont pay, that they must put their name on the cert under deviation saying they will not install RCD

 

[mcgaw81]

either way, it needs RCD protection or you cannot do the jobIf they wont change the CU, you could always pull the ring outside the CU, install an RCD in small enclosure and use some 4 or 6mm and connect to MCB/fuse etc

or tell whoever said they wont pay, that they must put their name on the cert under deviation saying they will not install RCD

Can't find suitable fuse for the Dorman Smith board!! Did think of that.

 

[Andy™]

sorry, i thought you were altering the existing ring

i think your only other option is to split the tails

 

[mcgaw81]

Sorry andy, misread your reply. Yeah im extending existing ring. So i could move the legs of the ring from the D/B and put them in a small enclosure supplied from the MCB in the D/B.

They don't even want that cost. There are 63 houses like this.......

 

[Andy™]

Sorry andy, misread your reply. Yeah im extending existing ring. So i could move the legs of the ring from the D/B and put them in a small enclosure supplied from the MCB in the D/B.They don't even want that cost. There are 63 houses like this.......

they dont really have a choice. either RCD is added or you cant do the work. are they paying for main earthing etc to be upgraded?

only other option (which will be even more expensive) is to install every cable so it doesnt need RCD protection, and install RCD sockets/spurs

Is this for a local authority?

 

[mcgaw81]

For a housing association,

All bonding in place 10mm to water and 10mm to gas ( i was surprised ), another question. If i replace the faceplate to the cooker, but don't move it does this need RCD Protection???

 

[binky]

Sorry andy, misread your reply. Yeah im extending existing ring. So i could move the legs of the ring from the D/B and put them in a small enclosure supplied from the MCB in the D/B.They don't even want that cost. There are 63 houses like this.......

Then it's an illegal installation, simple as that really. Never liked extending circuits, personally, would have gone for new circuit on mini CU or standalone RCD to existing fuse - avoids hidden nasties. I have a cunning plan though, ] piggy back all sockets onto one fuse, and use spare way for new kitchen ring - it was already like that guv - that way you only have to buy cheapo rcd and an enclosure, and given quantity you should be able to hard barter prices down.

 

[Andy™]

If i replace the faceplate to the cooker, but don't move it does this need RCD Protection???

if its maintenance, you dont need to bring circuit to 17th, so you could leave as is but some could argue that its minor works since it didnt 'need' replaced. just dont change it for something with a socket if it doesnt already have one

 

[mcgaw81]

They don't want new circuit, the ones already done have all had seperate ring in kitchen, covered by RCD, and bonding in place. However it is just these 63 houses.

 

[Andy™]

They don't want new circuit, the ones already done have all had seperate ring in kitchen, covered by RCD, and bonding in place. However it is just these 63 houses.

can i ask why this has just came up about the RCD's? was it mentioned when you gave a price for the works etc? did no-one spot this earlier or is the LA just being awkward?

i used to work for [similar name to supermarkert] doing kitchens. there was almost no expense spared. 50% of the time a new cooker circuit was installed (unless existing would move to new position). 80% of the time a new ring for kitchen (unless existing ring was small and there was a 2nd for upstairs etc). about 80% of the time the CU was changed for a dual split, sometimes fully RCBO'd if thats all we could get

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

40 Amp 30mA 2 Pole RCD 2 Pole - Contactum

RCD

 

[mcgaw81]

can i ask why this has just came up about the RCD's? was it mentioned when you gave a price for the works etc? did no-one spot this earlier or is the LA just being awkward?i used to work for [similar name to supermarkert] doing kitchens. there was almost no expense spared. 50% of the time a new cooker circuit was installed (unless existing would move to new position). 80% of the time a new ring for kitchen (unless existing ring was small and there was a 2nd for upstairs etc). about 80% of the time the CU was changed for a dual split, sometimes fully RCBO'd if thats all we could get

On the first contract, which was 87 kitchens, all houses had 16th Edition split load boards, they had been wired about 15 years ago. So no problem there.

This contract started last friday, the first 4 streets are all in the same condition as first contract.

However now we have came to this street and it had been missed on the rewire schedule, no-one told me. So when i looked at them on friday i told them about the RCD protection, and they said get back to them with a price. So I did and I thought my prices were very competative, but they don't want this cost.

So yes they are being Awkward so and so's....

 

[mcgaw81]

40 Amp 30mA 2 Pole RCD 2 Pole - ContactumRCD

 

[Andy™]

Cheers Spec they are lower cost than the one's i found. Surely that should be ok within there budget!!!!!!

you may get them even cheaper if you phone them with your qty

 

[biker mike]

On the first contract, which was 87 kitchens, all houses had 16th Edition split load boards, they had been wired about 15 years ago. So no problem there.
This contract started last friday, the first 4 streets are all in the same condition as first contract.

However now we have came to this street and it had been missed on the rewire schedule, no-one told me. So when i looked at them on friday i told them about the RCD protection, and they said get back to them with a price. So I did and I thought my prices were very competative, but they don't want this cost.

So yes they are being Awkward so and so's....

If they knew that that they were missed then they should accept the fact that they didnt disclose the info , and are liable for the upgrade, it's in their records they were missed so it seems they dont have a case to refuse , but if they dont want to pay to sort it ,recalculate the job price without that row of houses and inform them that you wont do the work unless its up to code .....

 

[mcgaw81]

40 Amp 30mA 2 Pole RCD 2 Pole - ContactumRCD

 

[Andy™]

Surely 32amp??? Or am i missing something? ?:|

your missing something. 40A is the most the RCD can handle. it does not have overload protection, it needs an MCB or fuse to go with it.

only RCBO's have overload and RCD in one unit

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Surely 32amp??? Or am i missing something? ?:|

Your MCB overload protection is still in your CU (32a?)

The RCD is only providing 30ma earth leakage protection..

BUT... must be capable of carrying the max current rating

25a too small, (most probably for a ring main?, typical for a radial)

40a OK

63a 80a or 100a overkill!

Tis an RCD NOT RCBO!

 

[mcgaw81]

Thanks lads blond moment....