Rented property , certs for CO & smoke detectors ?

[Evans Electric]

I never bothered before to certify  alarms separately  , always install them then then just tick the box where it says " Any smoke alarms installed"    

Now I have an enquiry for a rental  coming empty in the summer , rewired  and a separate cert for smoke & CO  alarm .

Couple of questions  to save me buying the  wrong cert pad.

1)   What requirements are in the certificates  (other than the usual tests on the mains supply) ?

2)   Do they require a smoke test  ?  Do they require a  CO test with the gas ?

3)  I see that NICEIC do all the cert pads  but ELECSA is excluded  , meaning I'd have to but the green  Non registered pads .    

Edit :   Just spoken to ELECSA Tech.  who  recommend their Green  generic certs for commissioning  domestic alarms ,  grades B C D E or F      .      

 

[Sidewinder]

Do you use Aico?

I think that they have model for their kit on the website, not sure but it might be only suitable for their stuff as some of the info is pre filled.

 

[ProDave]

I think it is just making sure there are the right number and they are in date (they all have a "replace by" date on them *)

The letting agents here don't ask for any particular certificate, but if anyone has an example it might be handy.

* I can see the point in a date on a sensor with a non replacable 10 year battery.  I can even perhaps see the point on an ionisation detector if the sensor is subject to degredation.  But sticking an arbitrary "replace by" date on a heat detector that has nothing more complex than a thermistor at it's heart is just plain stupid.

 

[Evans Electric]

Do you use Aico?

I think that they have model for their kit on the website, not sure but it might be only suitable for their stuff as some of the info is pre filled.

Yes  always use Aico .

I'll have a look at their  website  ,  might save shelling out £ 22    for the NIC/ELECSA   generic one .   (OK   if I was full time  working  I'd just buy the pad ...25 certs  @ about £1  each)   I'm guessing I'll use the top one and it will join all the other publications on the top shelf , never to be seen again .  

 

[Evans Electric]

I think it is just making sure there are the right number and they are in date (they all have a "replace by" date on them *)

I found that no one  is aware of the expiry dates .  I've replaced loads by having a quick look  at the dates  when fitting , say, a light .     

And as we discussed before ...found quite a few dedicated alarm circuits actually switched off  , with new residents saying  " Oh it was off when we  moved in so I left it off"  

 

[Murdoch]

If I'm doing an EICR I do note the expiry dates of smoke alarms (if they have them) on the report .............. most seem to be out of date.

I've seen and heard publicity about checking smoke alarms and testing them to make sure they work, but don't recall these ever mentioning the fact that they actually don't last for ever!

And as we discussed before ...found quite a few dedicated alarm circuits actually switched off  , with new residents saying  " Oh it was off when we  moved in so I left it off"  

That's why I never put them on a separate circuit ............ but often see new homes with them on separate circuits ..............

 

[Sidewinder]

If the smoke alarms are out of date which bs7671 reg no would you put against it?

 

[Sharpend]

The one where it says follow Mfr instructions ??

 

[Murdoch]

If the smoke alarms are out of date which bs7671 reg no would you put against it?

I wouldn't - its purely an observation to draw it to the attention of the homeowner ................

 

[Evans Electric]

f the smoke alarms are out of date which bs7671 reg no would you put against it?

None  ,  I'd only test the circuit .   I'm a great believer in keeping my electrician's nose out of stuff that isn't my concern TBH  . 

If there was a family living there ,say,  I would tell them they were out of date  , then its down to them to sort . 

 

[roys]

Slightly of track, if your were fitting detectors into your own home would it be Aico ones you would fit.

I am about to fit a set into my own house and was thinking that these were the ones to go for but just needing to confirm.

cheers

 

[Doc Hudson]

I never bothered before to certify  alarms separately  , always install them then then just tick the box where it says " Any smoke alarms installed"    

Now I have an enquiry for a rental  coming empty in the summer , rewired  and a separate cert for smoke & CO  alarm .

Couple of questions  to save me buying the  wrong cert pad.

1)   What requirements are in the certificates  (other than the usual tests on the mains supply) ?

2)   Do they require a smoke test  ?  Do they require a  CO test with the gas ?

3)  I see that NICEIC do all the cert pads  but ELECSA is excluded  , meaning I'd have to but the green  Non registered pads .    

Edit :   Just spoken to ELECSA Tech.  who  recommend their Green  generic certs for commissioning  domestic alarms ,  grades B C D E or F      .      

AICO's website has a few guides to testing/commissioning/certifying etc..  https://www.aico.co.uk/technical-support/alarm-testing-commissioning/   It is interesting to note that they do NOT recommend doing any actual smoke tests as they can be misleading. The test buttons provides sufficient functional testing.

Doc H.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Slightly of track, if your were fitting detectors into your own home would it be Aico ones you would fit.

I am about to fit a set into my own house and was thinking that these were the ones to go for but just needing to confirm.

cheers

Yes, we have mains powered interlinked, 9v batt back-up units in our house. And if hard-wired hadn't been possible I would have used their radio link bases. Until I see a product that is better designed for ease of installation, termination of cables, functionality, testing, maintenance and overall reliability and appearance, I will continue to use Aico as my number#1 choice.

Doc H.

 

[roys]

Yes, we have mains powered interlinked, 9v batt back-up units in our house. And if hard-wired hadn't been possible I would have used their radio link bases. Until I see a product that is better designed for ease of installation, termination of cables, functionality, testing, maintenance and overall reliability and appearance, I will continue to use Aico as my number#1 choice.

Doc H.

Cheers Doc, Aico hard wired it is then.

 

[Sidney]

For domestic just use a generic cert compliant with BS5839-6.

Normally LD3 with either Grade D or F alarms. D mains powered with battery backup and F battery only.

Aico do a decent certificate: https://www.aico.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Fire-Installation-Certificate.pdf

Also some good information here: https://www.fireangel.co.uk/blog/bs-5839-6-2013-building-regulations

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for that guys ,   so a single page generic cert does the job then .  No need to buy a great pad full . 

 

[Sidewinder]

Slightly of track, if your were fitting detectors into your own home would it be Aico ones you would fit.

I am about to fit a set into my own house and was thinking that these were the ones to go for but just needing to confirm.

cheers

Aico for sure, mains powered wireless interlinked for me though, didn’t want to disturb things that much, & the wireless interlinking offers more diagnostic possibilities.

 

[roys]

Aico for sure, mains powered wireless interlinked for me though, didn’t want to disturb things that much, & the wireless interlinking offers more diagnostic possibilities.

Cheers Sidey

 

[Evans Electric]

Aico  always seem to be top quality , certainly never had a problem with them .

If wiring the place anyway I do the hard wired ones  but on retro fit  you can balance the cost of Radiolink  against pulling up floorboards  etc .

Radiolink  bases are costly at  over £ 46 .00  ea   plus the detector.   

 

[Sidewinder]

You actually get "more" via the radio link than you do with hard wired, you can link smokes & CO, you can interrogate them for diagnostics silently via a computer and a "dongle", you can link them to other devices and more.