Replacing Junction Box In An Inaccessible Location

[keentolearn]

I'm doing some wiring at home, typical 1930s house, wiring in a less than perfect state, so as I renovate/decorate each room I'm updating it.  I am keen to get all work checked and approved by building control/certified electrician as by the time I'm finished the rewiring would be extensive.

I've come up against a problem.  Some wiring I can't get to to replace due to a filed floor, its joined to what I can access, under landing floor boards, by a junction box which is acting as a rose for a light in the room below.  So lighting power in, and out to the next light rose, plus wire to switch and wire to drop.  The wire to the switch and to the drop are the ones that disappear under the tiles of the bathroom floor.  

My task is to replace the power wires, I'm content to leave the switch and drop wires.  I know the current screwed terminal j/box shouldn't be used and have been advised to use crimp joints.  Also been advised its not good to use wago connectors by the electrician who is inspecting my work.  So crimp connectors seem the only choice.  

My issue is how to reliably join 4_or 5 wires in a crimp?  The power splits at this j/box and runs to several other roses hence the need to connect 4 or 5 wires.  Is it good practice to crimp several wires together in one crimped butt?  It feels poor to me.  Alternatively are there 4 or 6 way connectors that multiple wires can be crimped into?  I've searched but not found anything.

Thanks.

 

[Lurch]

My issue is how to reliably join 4_or 5 wires in a crimp?

You don't, use Wagos. Get an electrician that knows more than you, not less. Defeats the purpose of having someone come in and tell you how to do it if they are going to tell you the wrong way of doing it.

 

[Tony S]

[SIZE=medium]This is the third forum you’ve tried to my knowledge, no doubt you’ll get the same answer.[/SIZE]

 

[keentolearn]

[SIZE=medium]This is the third forum you’ve tried to my knowledge, no doubt you’ll get the same answer.[/SIZE]

Sorry Tony,  could you link me to the other places this has been discussed?  It is honestly my first time asking for advice on this, and despite a long Google I haven't found it discussed elsewhere, which surprised me as with screw terminal junction boxes very common in underfloor locations I'd have thought it was a common problem.

 

[M107]

 

Also been advised its not good to use wago connectors by the electrician who is inspecting my work.

Tell him that wagos are fine...............

Use wagos & place in the appropriate box

My issue is how to reliably join 4_or 5 wires in a crimp?

You don't

Is it good practice to crimp several wires together in one crimped butt?  

Nope

It feels poor to me.

It is 

 

[binky]

Wagos are brill, but he maybe referring to the drop which s often stranded cable and needs this type of wago

http://www.screwfix.com/p/3-way-lever-connector-222-series-pack-of-50/76776?kpid=76776&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Electrical-_-Shopping%20-%20Electrical&gclid=Cj0KEQjwwIKxBRDKhOz7ytT30vkBEiQAT1NaPc5bKxzW8ieDeWnL2Y5N8qwuZ9z2VKYvINjv_QVL-tsaAhtr8P8HAQ

 

[kerching]

Wagos are no good!

Well,your 'spark' ,had better email me and tell,me why!.........i probably use 500 a month of them!

And the new orange 221s are even,better

I think WAGO would be interested as to why a product used all over the world is classed as "not good"

Just saying

 

[Blue Duck]

They do read this forum from time to time.

I know some of the old hats don't like em coz they are new init and they would rather be using screwits(dogs d**ks).

why not terminate the wiring in the ceiling rose for the light below?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I think your electrician is wrong in saying don't use  Wago's or similar . Crimps are designed for stranded cable only which i doubt yours are, also all insulated crimps are utter crap nowadays. I bought a new calibrated crimper as i thought mine must have worn but  the cables can still be pulled out the various makes of crimps i have tried..

My view is no junction box as your describing should be planned to be un-accesable, thats not good workmanship.

 

[Lurch]

http://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/topic/28908-replacing-junction-box-in-an-inaccessible-location

The other thread of the same name. Might need merging.

 

[Murdoch]

I wouldn't be replacing junction boxes under floors with new ones and why are you replacing the switch drops too? Seems a bit half baked to me!

And why is an electrician "inspecting" your work? This sounds odd too.

 

[Murdoch]

Sorry Tony,  could you link me to the other places this has been discussed?  It is honestly my first time asking for advice on this, and despite a long Google I haven't found it discussed elsewhere, which surprised me as with screw terminal junction boxes very common in underfloor locations I'd have thought it was a common problem.

probably put their under earlier versions of the regs..... so not the 17th

 

[OnOff]

As a time saving device that just "works" WAGOs are up there with <insert your choice here>!  :lol:  

 

[keentolearn]

They do read this forum from time to time.

I know some of the old hats don't like em coz they are new init and they would rather be using screwits(dogs d**ks).

why not terminate the wiring in the ceiling rose for the light below?

I'm not sure I follow you.  current situation is the j/box under the landing floor which is wired as the rose to the cloakroom light (ground floor, directly under the recently fitted and tiled bathroom)  2 wires from the j/box disappear through joists, 2 if my measurement is correct, and one is 'the drop' which goes to the physical ceiling rose and the physical drop, the other goes to the switch.  These two wires are old red and black but given they seem impossible to replace without ripping the cloakroom ceiling down (also recently redecorated!) and are visibly okay a]where visible, and causing no problems, I was thinking 'leave them alone'

i have thought i could try pulling new wire through, using the old wire....fairly sure it won't work, wires are tight, might be lucky and get a new wire through to the rose, but not down the conduit to the switch i reckon...so to do it properly looks like rip the ceiling down.  Or am i missing something?

 

[Blue Duck]

sorry thought you meant there was a fitting below the JB.

you probably already know this but your doing this arse about face, the wires should have gone in before plastering / decoration.

 

[keentolearn]

oh indeed,  fed up to have got in this mess, i should have spotted it.  id like to think the spark would have when he wired an extractor fan off the cloakroom light for me as part of that redecoration as he knew i was considering a rewire elsewhere in the house...but i can't pass the blame on to him, its my mistake.

 

[steptoe]

As a time saving device that just "works" WAGOs are up there with the sliced pan loaf  :lol:  

that works for me, 

 

[Doc Hudson]

My task is to replace the power wires, I'm content to leave the switch and drop wires.  I know the current screwed terminal j/box shouldn't be used and have been advised to use crimp joints.  Also been advised its not good to use wago connectors by the electrician who is inspecting my work.  So crimp connectors seem the only choice.  

My issue is how to reliably join 4_or 5 wires in a crimp?  The power splits at this j/box and runs to several other roses hence the need to connect 4 or 5 wires.  Is it good practice to crimp several wires together in one crimped butt?  It feels poor to me.  Alternatively are there 4 or 6 way connectors that multiple wires can be crimped into?  I've searched but not found anything.

Thanks.

If this 'electrician' who is inspecting your work says he wont accept wagos, surely he should have suggested the type of termination that he will accept. Did you actually ask him what he would do and what sort of connector he would use? I cannot believe that any of our member on the forum in a similar situation would have left a client with just a 'you cant do that' statement, but not give an alternative solution. Are you sure this other person is a proper electrician, they sound very dubious to me. I would suggest you get a second opinion and get a competent electrician to come and look at the problem.

Doc H.

 

[Southcoast2015]

Obviously they've never used Wago's - They're awesome - Far better than crimping in my opinion.

 

[Andy™]

Obviously they've never used Wago's - They're awesome - Far better than crimping in my opinion.

uninsulated crimps are far better that wagos, but wagos are better than insulated crimps