responsibility with regards to EICR when it fails ?

[wsoppitt]

hello fellas , me again , i bet your thinking does this guy know anything , yes , but i dont know everything , which is why im asking you lovely people to make me a better electrician .

I have recently undertaken a condition report and unfortunately it failed on the following points :

1) broken light switch ( bottom half missing ) c1

2) shower circuit not rcd protected c2

3) no continuity of neutral on ringmain c2

4) insufficient cable size for shower circuit ( 8.5kw on 6mm t+e ) c2

5) consumer unit blanks missing c1

6) switch polarity incorrect c2

7) suspect reading on cpc of ringmain c2

My question is , the customer might get this work corrected by somebody else and then wants me to go back and retest on the failed points and issue the EICR , what is my obligation with regards to this ? Do i have to go back and retest the corrected faults at my own expense , charge for and carry out a complete new report , not obliged to go back ( i kinda said would do it for

 

[Sidewinder]

The person correcting the work is obliged to issue certification to cover the works they do, else you should charge the same rate as your original PIR to undertake another, after all that is what you would be doing.

You should have already issued the original unsatisfactory EICR/PIR anyway.

 

[wsoppitt]

sidewinder , yes the report has been issued to the client , but he wants me to issue another when the work has been done. I wasnt sure as to whether a complete retest would be necessary or just on the failed points and then a new report issued . Only just started doing EICR so not sure exactly how it works .

 

[Sidewinder]

You can't just test the repaired bits in case the repairer has mucked up the rest of it!

 

[steptoe]

FAULT 4 ,

what size is the OCPD?

imho the shower size doesnt really come into it as long as the cable is protected, OK, there may be a design issue there, but thats not really down to you to code,

that is only my opinion mind, for the record though, 6mm will run an 8.5kW shower quite adequately depending on the installation method, have another look and see what rating the shower is really, remember, its 230v nowadays,

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The extent and limitations of any periodic inspection is between you and the client..

You are under no obligation to have to do anything once the initial inspection is completed and report issued...

If you are requested to do further works, the extent to which you do tests and the amount you charge will be mutually agreed....

I would guess it will be on hourly rate X hours taken..

especially if a third party is involved with some remedial works...

You may be able to negotiate some discount if you were doing the remedials...

But that is your business choice..

your obligations go as far as your mutually agreed contract of works..

And NO further!

:Salute

 

[wsoppitt]

so looking to charge him about

 

[steptoe]

you simply tell him that he misunderstood you and you meant it would only be

 

[wsoppitt]

what are you refuring to as OCPD ?

 

[steptoe]

Over Current Protective Device ,

the mcb/rcbo/...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

FAULT 4 ,what size is the OCPD?

imho the shower size doesnt really come into it as long as the cable is protected, OK, there may be a design issue there, but thats not really down to you to code,

that is only my opinion mind, for the record though, 6mm will run an 8.5kW shower quite adequately depending on the installation method, have another look and see what rating the shower is really, remember, its 230v nowadays,

I didn't notice that bit...

As Stepingtowe says....

If the correct MCB is fitted

There is NO danger... JUST inconvenience

6.0mm IS actually running a fair few 9.5kW showers around the country if the random sample I have seen is anything to go on!?

BUT..

either way.. blanks missing on CU and broken bottom off light switch ...

STILL quite probably unsatisfactory...

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:48 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:44 ----------

you simply tell him that he misunderstood you and you meant it would only be

 

[wsoppitt]

steptoe , i like it . Miscommunication i can work with that one ,

 

[Robin Spark]

Hi soppit,

any ideas as to when shower was installed as 30ma rcd wasnt a requirement a few years back however supplementary bonding was required. Therefore if its an old install and supp. bonding inplace then maybe a C3 (improvement recommended).

Also if you have any C1 codes then really you need to be sorting that out with the customer immediately as you have identified the fault and you dont want a fatality or accident to be on your conscience especially for trivial things like blanking covers missing or a broken light switch that arent going to take much time to sort out. If you have the OSG then read page153 G3.3.

 

[philbas]

FAULT 4 ,what size is the OCPD?

imho the shower size doesnt really come into it as long as the cable is protected, OK, there may be a design issue there, but thats not really down to you to code,

that is only my opinion mind, for the record though, 6mm will run an 8.5kW shower quite adequately depending on the installation method, have another look and see what rating the shower is really, remember, its 230v nowadays,

I think the question here is more about responsibility, rather than are these codes correct, 1 and 5 seem enough.

Its an interesting question, (I'm going for the MOT comparision again)

If I take my car for an MOT and it fails, I can leave it there to be fixed, they will do it charge me for the work and issue MOT.

Or I can take it a way, and sort it myself, either DIY or via a third party, if i take it back within some time( i cant be bothered to look up now), they just test the parts they faile it on and issue cert.

If I take it back after that time they have to do a full retest.

So you fail it (more to the point you fail parts of it), you provide your EICR with the problems.

They have 3 options.

1) Ignore it, your ass is covered you told them and issued the paperwork.

2) Employ you to fix it, you will do that and when its fixed you will issue the paperwork, how much retesting you need is your choice, its your sig on the paperwork.

3) They decide to get someone else in, then they issue the paperwork for what the did, if you get called back to test again its a full test, they take ownership of there work or you start again.

 

[wsoppitt]

No idea as to when shower was fitted , but no supplementary bonding hence the code 2 , as to the over current device it is a 32 amp mcb on a 8.5kw shower so yes it would activate before the current affected the cable itself but still inconvenient if you like a long hot shower , stop , start , stop , start , etc .

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No idea as to when shower was fitted , but no supplementary bonding hence the code 2 , as to the over current device it is a 32 amp mcb on a 8.5kw shower so yes it would activate before the current affected the cable itself but still inconvenient if you like a long hot shower , stop , start , stop , start , etc .

The shower circuit MCB rating bit is really a C3

as probably is the No RCD bit.

BUT The the NO sup bonding needs an observation....

and.. as said there's enough C1,s with your blanks etc..

 

[wsoppitt]

property is vacant at the moment and client told me to do nothing after report until he has discussed it with his partner that is why code 1 were not rectified , decorative switch cover had been fitted over top of broken switch so no immediate danger with that but with regards to consumer unit blanks i agree i should have made it safe , but client wanted no remedial work done , what can i do apart from pay for the blanks and absorb the costs , Turning off the power was not an option .

 

[NozSpark]

Remember,,, making safe can be as little as isolating the circuit and issuing a danger notice; if they ignore it then that's up to them

 

[wsoppitt]

Rang up napit technical and they agreed with the coding of the shower as a c2 with regards to no rcd protection so it just goes to show the conflict in opinion amongst said experts and you professionals , different strokes for different folks i guess , whos right , whos wrong ?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

steptoe , i like it . Miscommunication i can work with that one ,