Small Socket Fire In Newbuild House Info Needed

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

/\ Now, all of that is a fact of life. I could not have said it better .

 

[BES]

Rough. Bet the back box wasnt earthed.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Rough. Bet the back box wasnt earthed.

If the back box was not earthed what caused the short, ehh   ;

 

[BES]

He didnt say ocpd or rcd tripped. If line conductor wad knicked could just be arcing on back box causing the burning.

 

[Sharpend]

I have to agree that specs has summed it all up pretty well, I will condense it a little further.

There is no pride left in the construction industry, accept for those who step out when it comes to handing the job over to the client then they're as proud as punch to deliver on time and within budget irrespective of what lies behind the finished surface.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi i have just bought a newbuild house in the north east of england. I have had an electrical problem with my downstairs sockets keep tripping the trip switch and rcd switch. I have traced this down to a live wire been sliced into by the electrician leaving the metal cage behind the socket fascia screws loose causing a small fire behind the socket when it has cut through the live wire. I am after some info on weather its acceptable for two earth wires in a socket to be ran through 1 sheathing drilled through one hole behind the socket. Does this break iee rules? Need some info before i play holy hell with persimmon homes. Regards Anthony

He didn't say ocpd or rcd tripped. If line conductor wad knicked could just be arcing on back box causing the burning.

erm...........

Read start of the first post...

trip switch and RCD keeps tripping..   ???

:coat

 

[BES]

erm...........

Read start of the first post...

trip switch and RCD keeps tripping.. ???

:coat

Mmm feel bit silly now. Im off to specsavers

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Rough. Bet the back box wasnt earthed.

May not have a fly lead...

But I bet there was sufficient earth continuity though the accessory fixing screws and at least one fixed lug ? 

 

[Blue Duck]

Good post SPECS

 

[anth1987]

Thanks guys for the wise words of advice. I will check tonight for the electrical installations certificate i should have got with the welcome pack for the house. Yes it all good saying that the circuit breaker did its job but nobody can tell me with 100% confidence that it could have ended up worse if the insulation etc behind the plasterboard caught fire. at the work i have seen myself when i pulled the sockets off loose wiring hangin about all over and 5 other sockets with loose wires it does not make me feel safe in my own home with my wife and daughter living there. You can understand my points with shelling out 150k to see this sort of work. If 5 sockets out of 9 tested had loose wires i am doubting the whole house wiring qualities. Even loose wires into the fusebox which could have caused a fire if it was the same wire loose as the socket that earthed out. I know they are built as quick and as fast as they can and corners are cut but should peoples lives be put a risk. Somebody has to be responsible for this. Regards

 

[BES]

True. But always fly lead back boxes.If socket removed no earth to box becomes exposed conductive part. Yes shouldnt remove socket before isolating but it happens and if line comes loose why removing socket and comes into contact with box and fingers contact same box good night vienna. I seen it happen but luckly back box earthed via fly lead.

 

[Doc Hudson]

The actual level of danger can be argued till the cows come home. But whatever way you look at it basic good workmanship has not been followed and corners have been cut. As such wiring regulations 134.1.1  which requires good workmanship & proper materials to be used and regulation 526.1 which requires all connections to be durable electrical connections and have adequate mechanical strength, have both been given minimal importance. As the fundamental principal of the wiring regulations is to protect people, property and livestock, then any non-compliance must increase some level of risk to someone or something. As a general rule where some corners have been cut it is common to find others have also been cut. So other greater risks could also be present.

Doc H.

 

[binky]

 Yes it all good saying that the circuit breaker did its job but nobody can tell me with 100% confidence that it could have ended up worse if the insulation etc behind the plasterboard caught fire.

1/ plaster board is pretty heard to set fire to

2/ we have seen thousands of these faults caused by a nick to insualtion - the black mark from burnt PVC looks worse than it is, at no point did you have a small fire, the whole point of modern MCBs and RCDS is the fast trip times as in 40milli-seconds. Old re-wireable fuses - now that's a different kettle of fish! Part of the reason, we fit metal back-boxes is becuase they don't catch fire, and any 'shorts' arc to metal which should be earthed, and cuases MCB to trip.

So I can totally understand your dissapointment and anger that your brand new house isn't quite how it should be, but I do think your are over-reacting

 

[anth1987]

Yes i appreciate what your saying but out of a dozen sockets checked 5 of them have been faulty. Loose wires into terminals not screwed down. Loose earth wires. God knows what the light switches other sockets thats have not been tested look like. My point is this is shoddy cowboy work and im not having it in my home. I will request a full wiring test done on my house and be going down the legal route for this negligence work that has been done to my house. Im a mechanic for bmw and i sign my life away on every job and its down to me if a wheel comes loose, bolt etc im responsible for the work i have done and signed off. So somebody will be held responsible before others can get hurt by this shoddy work. Cheers
 

 

[dave2]

Slightly off topic but this thread reminds me of a job I was asked to do earlier this year.

Brand new house, work still in progress on remaining houses on estate and new owner wants downlights in the kitchen.

I explain that I cannot drill holes willy nilly in the ceiling as there could be pipes/cables etc. above. I would need to access from above and its's a chipboard floor. Messy!!

No problem he says. Guy coming next week to renew the upstairs flooring as it's creaking.

I was intrigued as you cannot renew the entire floor as all the stud walls are built on top of it. 

He showed me the floor and every board had been nailed to the joists, not a screw in site. No noggings on board overlaps. The whole floor was moving and all the nails were loose. 

Later found out that the guy who came to do the repairs was doing this full time on that estate and they were still building.

New houses---load of crap. 

Pleased I built my own.

 

[binky]

you just seemed to be getting over aggitated about the fire risk. Trouble with new-builds is they use cheap labour and let them loose, then harrass them to get job done quick, which is why I don't do any site work. I've always worked on the principle that moving a little slower, and doing it right first time is in reality more cost effective - no fault finding or snagging. Took on an electrician 6 months ago, and that is what he was used to dealing with - thought we were slow, but now understands we don't have to snag anything.

 

[Andy™]

If you are going to start arguing over it, stick to the facts, without exaggerating. there was not a 'fire'. it is simply flash marks from where it shorted. It may or may not have been caused by the electrician, he may have done that socket correctly then A N other has removed it to decorate or something and they have trapped the cable. But there should not be loose connections all over. loose connections are often obvious when testing, but then they may have just tested it, wrote number on EIC and left it at that

if they do send someone to do an EICR, i suggest to giving them a copy of the EIC until after they have finished - be interesting to compare the test results.

and this type of fault can happen at anywhere, anytime. one of todays jobs was an almost identical fault. the socket has been in place, untouched with no problems for over 5 years, then over the weekend, it shorted and tripped the power

 

[kerching]

i for one would be extremely concerned if my walls were insulated with flammable material.

i know that you can 'never say never', but there would be little chance of that 'splash/snot' mark on the backbox causing a fire. in my humble and worthless opinion

just saying

 

[Blue Duck]

Your very humble at the moment kerching anything to do with the kia?

As others have said play it cool you not gonna far by screaming and shouting I'm sure the builder is used to it though? Maybe worth asking your neighbours if they've had any problem s?

 

[OnOff]

Go and take a look in the back of the show house sockets..............I bet that's all pucker!  :lol: