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I think Farage is a cunning Tory plant.
So 8th June.........
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They would be a disaster...... as for Council Tax - this should be scrapped and replaced with a combination of Council Tax and Poll Tax.
How would they be a disaster?? if they were that lettuced, or would be that lettuced, why do people like the french owned [yep, the state] power companies like EDF rush to buy them??
john..
john..
oh look at this back door tax.... :redcard
https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/the-uks-new-speeding-fines-explained
https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/using/the-uks-new-speeding-fines-explained
^^ for everything you want we will ALL have to pay more in taxes, either directly or indirectly... and none of the parties will discuss this.
"Could this be due to selling off all the council houses" - started by The Conservatives and continued by Labour - in fact only the SNP have very recently halted the sale of council houses
"and cheap labour from abroad keeping wages down?" - by New Labour .......and under EU rules we are unable to stop this....
Not sure what your point is....with either of these
Bottom line for me is the cost of housing (which is the elephant in the room) - since the 1970's the UK has not built enough homes for the natural growth in the population and the democratic changes brought about by the numbers of people living alone AND the age to which people are living. Successive Governments, of all colours have failed to plan for the growth and when in 2003 the old Eastern European Countries joined the EU, with freedom of movement, the UK has been crippled by the shortage of housing... if you need to rent, or buy as a first time buyer you are screwed... the costs are totally out of proportion to incomes.... and hence the resulting squeeze on incomes... those with existing homes, and moderate mortgages have been made better off by the consistent lower mortgage rates so their housing costs are low.
Lets also not forget that Labour did absolutely nothing to pre-empt the aging population and in fact lowered the number of years of NI contributions required to get the state pension... further costs for the state which were not funded.....
None of the parties have the answers for the 21st century.... Europe will slowly become a quiet backwater in the world....... wealth will be generated and sent elsewhere.... UK companies off shore staffing and production, yet we are supposed to generate wealth here.... then there are the clever international companies who pay their tax were they want to..... if it was me, I would replace corporation tax with sales tax, so companies pay their taxes, in the country where the sales are made.....
Continued membership of the EU will only lead to further weakening of the rights and wealth of the UK citizens...
"Could this be due to selling off all the council houses" - started by The Conservatives and continued by Labour - in fact only the SNP have very recently halted the sale of council houses
"and cheap labour from abroad keeping wages down?" - by New Labour .......and under EU rules we are unable to stop this....
Not sure what your point is....with either of these
Bottom line for me is the cost of housing (which is the elephant in the room) - since the 1970's the UK has not built enough homes for the natural growth in the population and the democratic changes brought about by the numbers of people living alone AND the age to which people are living. Successive Governments, of all colours have failed to plan for the growth and when in 2003 the old Eastern European Countries joined the EU, with freedom of movement, the UK has been crippled by the shortage of housing... if you need to rent, or buy as a first time buyer you are screwed... the costs are totally out of proportion to incomes.... and hence the resulting squeeze on incomes... those with existing homes, and moderate mortgages have been made better off by the consistent lower mortgage rates so their housing costs are low.
Lets also not forget that Labour did absolutely nothing to pre-empt the aging population and in fact lowered the number of years of NI contributions required to get the state pension... further costs for the state which were not funded.....
None of the parties have the answers for the 21st century.... Europe will slowly become a quiet backwater in the world....... wealth will be generated and sent elsewhere.... UK companies off shore staffing and production, yet we are supposed to generate wealth here.... then there are the clever international companies who pay their tax were they want to..... if it was me, I would replace corporation tax with sales tax, so companies pay their taxes, in the country where the sales are made.....
Continued membership of the EU will only lead to further weakening of the rights and wealth of the UK citizens...
Oh yes, that's right, the Tories gave the average working man the ability to better himself and actually own the house he was renting, giving him something to work for,
Labour,? Well, let's see, gave the average scrounger even more money and less incentive to work, its almost as if Labour gave them a career of being on benefits, thank you Mrs Blair, our 2nd female PM, you know, the one that made millions off the back of making her husband toe the line with the human rights act, and making a mockery out of it, and the legal aid system to line her own pockets.
Labour,? Well, let's see, gave the average scrounger even more money and less incentive to work, its almost as if Labour gave them a career of being on benefits, thank you Mrs Blair, our 2nd female PM, you know, the one that made millions off the back of making her husband toe the line with the human rights act, and making a mockery out of it, and the legal aid system to line her own pockets.
and lets not forget the icing on the cake... working tax credits..... so my VERY REAL EXAMPLE
Divorcee with 2 kids earns £15K, pays not much tax so net income per month is about £1150
ex husband pays £800 per month
Tax credits pays about £450 per 4 weeks (no tax to pay on this)
Child benefit pays £113 every 4 weeks
Her net income just over £2500, the house is owned outright, so no mortgage or rent to pay.....
Maintenance payments are not included in tax credits "income" - WTGrape?????????????
She has more disposable income than us and we both work.....
So if you have kids, get a low paid job.... the state gives you thousands tax free ...why, why, why would you get a better paid job?
All you have to do is work 16 hours per week - this is so, so, so wrong IMHO
Divorcee with 2 kids earns £15K, pays not much tax so net income per month is about £1150
ex husband pays £800 per month
Tax credits pays about £450 per 4 weeks (no tax to pay on this)
Child benefit pays £113 every 4 weeks
Her net income just over £2500, the house is owned outright, so no mortgage or rent to pay.....
Maintenance payments are not included in tax credits "income" - WTGrape?????????????
She has more disposable income than us and we both work.....
So if you have kids, get a low paid job.... the state gives you thousands tax free ...why, why, why would you get a better paid job?
All you have to do is work 16 hours per week - this is so, so, so wrong IMHO
Now that is one of THE most sensible suggestions to date, and something I am 100000000% behind.
It will never happen though as it will tax the global companies that run the world economies to suit themselves for their benefit, to enslave the working man again.
All political parties are party to this.
working tax credits was a lettuced idea, it basically bolstered large companies not paying enough to their workers. BUT you have to remember that was in the days of a run away 'service economy', the banks hadn't collapsed, and New Labour was Tory wets. WTC was an attempt to making work pay for ordinary people.
as for housing, any working man wanting to better himself could go buy a private house and not be subsidised by the state with a house for far less than market value. My parents were never subsidised in this way, nor have I ever been. Now we have a shortage of affodable rental properties for the current generations of working people trying to build a decent life.
as for housing, any working man wanting to better himself could go buy a private house and not be subsidised by the state with a house for far less than market value. My parents were never subsidised in this way, nor have I ever been. Now we have a shortage of affodable rental properties for the current generations of working people trying to build a decent life.
Your reply demonstrates your ignorance of past labour governments the pay rise that got blocked was back in the 70's under a supposed proper labour government and what we got was wage restraint for 5 years with the government deciding the level of the pittance they would allow us to be paid each year
The unions destroyed themselves when the members realised they were not sheep to be driven at the leaders whim. Scargill created a turning point for the unions with his miners strike directed from his ivory tower while still being paid handsomely and he even found time to buy a new jag and during that time his starving members were left to fend for themselves
All the strikes killed a lot of companies or caused the companies to look elsewhere in the world to produce their goods, the car industry was dogged by strikes and couldn't produce a decent quality vehicle in the UK
My union membership ceased many years ago when I decided if I had a grievance with my employer I could very easily sort it out myself without the intervention of some highly paid union man
TBH I'm struggling to think of one thing a labour government has done for the working man as it seems to be more focused on getting the non working man the maximum benefits without thinking where the money is coming from
this is one of my biggest issues, I am quite happy to pay more tax to get good services. It's chepaer than buying the same services on the open market as well as keeping the money in the UK. I can't stand all the back door taxation, eg why the firk am I being taxed 9% on insurance. All these back door taxes must cost more to collect due to all the admin, I myself collect VAT for the government, I am an unpaid tax collector which costs me money, and these costs are passed on to the customers. Thta's 1 small example, multiply that by all the back door taxes and it is costing a bloody fortune! Money wasted to avoid press critcism. Add to this the failure in closing taxoopholes for the wealthy / large and medium businesses and the whole system is unfair, more expensive than it needs to be and total ****e
I think we are well past the 70s and contsant strikes. So talking of wages, how many people have enjoyed a pay rise in the last decade? What we have seen is real terms pay cuts.
Whatever you think of Scargill, you can't deny his forecast of the detruction of the coal industry was correct. I'll think you wil also find the NUM arranged all sorts of things for the striking coal miners, what they hadn't really reckoned on was Thatcher had pre-planned the whole attack on the NUM with her American buddy. Scargill was mug enough to fall into the trap. And after the destruction of the unions, isn't funny how assest stripping destroyed more businesses than unions ever did. Isn't also funny how the same workforce under foreign management can result in the most efficient car production in the world.
As for benefits, Thatcher encouraged people to be put on disabiltiy allowances etc etc to get the unemployment figures down. As for today, what exactly has the Tory party done for the working man? In the last what 40 years, 30 years has been under the governance of the Tory party. Has the UK got better, or the wealthy wealthier?
We are well past Thatcher but she is still castigated
Just over a decade ago legislation was introduced that killed this industry and put paid to electricians getting paid what they should and Thatcher was nowhere to be seen
A blind man on a galloping horse could have predicted the decimation of the coal industry it didn't Scargill to try and emulate Gormley's achievement of bringing down a government. The unions were stupid enough to destroy themselves when their membership wised up, I know of a few factories where the management actually engineered strikes so the factory could be retooled without paying production staff while it was done. Most of the workers at the time started to realise that what the strikes were costing them in lost wages was never really recovered no matter how large the pay rise was
As you quoted me it would have been nice if you would have answered my question and not keep asking what the Tories have done as a response. By my reckoning the Tories have only been in government 25 of the last 40 years, 15 years of labour government has had a bigger effect on my earnings or certainly the reduction of them
On another note labour bang on about the NHS and how many new hospitals they built when the reality is they signed some very expensive mortgages to be paid over 30 years that are now crippling the NHS
There is only so long that you can live bringing £3 of revenue while spending £4 and that is the real story of the labour boom and bust economics of government as eventually it has to be paid back
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phil d
Well-known member
There are so many things wrong and I don't think any party is without blame, the selling off of council houses was wrong, they were meant for the poorer members of society, as an example, I live in a council house, my rent is £105 per week or £420 per month, now an identical house in my same street privately owned ex council is rented out for over £600 per month! A lot of people bought them to rent out, I even heard of people paying council tenants to buy the house then after the 3 year restriction was over it was handed to the guy who had paid them to buy it, he then rented it privately to them(dss paying) for nearly twice the original amount.
The benefits system is wrong also, when I lost my job due to ill health I had 3 years without any money whatsoever, previously I'd had a decent job and we had a fairly good lifestyle, not lavish but comfortable. Because my wife worked, (bringing home £1000 a month) they said I wasn't entitled to anything, We went bankrupt after ending up in debt, the CSA were after money for a child from an ex partner, they said that because I wasn't working then my wife would have to pay it, it went to court, they won! Eventually I got DLA at £75 a week, it was reviewed a year later and despite 2 suicide attempts they decided I was improving and reduced it to £43 a week.
There are people who have never had a job since leaving school and they were getting more money than me, one lad was moaning about not having enough cash, there was him, his wife and one child, they were getting rent paid, council tax paid, free prescriptions, free eyecare, plus loads of other stuff and £300 a week in dole money! I asked him why he didn't work and he said taking all his benefits into account they were getting nearly £500 a week coming into the house, he was unskilled so where was he going to get a job earning that much? Fair comment I suppose.
As for taxes, I agree that a lot of it is done by stealth, things don't go up in budgets, but other things are taxed in a sneaky way, they give you an extra £5 in the budget but take a tenner off you in other ways.
Allowing foreign companies to own our utilities was wrong, the profits made go abroad, uncontrolled immigration has caused problems, reducing wages and causing resentment, plus it gives the idle an excuse not to work, "there's no job's because the migrants have taken them" is a common quote. Well instead of paying these people large amounts to stay on the dole, how about this one? Get rid of all the immigrants who do unskilled work, that will create a load of jobs, then the lazy people who have no skills and no desire to work will have 2 options, work or starve, the excuse of "there are no jobs" will no longer hold water. Tbh I'm sick to death of people saying to me, "it's alright for you, you've got a trade", yes I have, but I wasn't born an electrician, I went to college, I learned and worked hard, didn't we all? yet some of these people use the lack of skills as an excuse not to work, skills need to be learned and that requires you to put in some effort.
I don't think any party has the answer to the current problems, but one thing is for certain, something needs doing and I think it's time that whoever gets in should put British people first, stop giving foreign aid to countries that quite often don't need it for a start! I'm all for helping others, but how can we send millions of pounds abroad when we have people sleeping on the streets and using food banks? Make foreign owned firms pay the correct amount of tax on money earned here, stop foreign firms owning utilities, and stop immigration unless the person has skills we need,
One other thing, there was talk of making not voting a criminal offence, they were concerned that not a lot of people were voting, well how about another box on the ballot paper? Vote non of the above, how many people don't vote because they don't like the politics of any of the parties? A "vote none of the above " box would no doubt prove interesting.
The benefits system is wrong also, when I lost my job due to ill health I had 3 years without any money whatsoever, previously I'd had a decent job and we had a fairly good lifestyle, not lavish but comfortable. Because my wife worked, (bringing home £1000 a month) they said I wasn't entitled to anything, We went bankrupt after ending up in debt, the CSA were after money for a child from an ex partner, they said that because I wasn't working then my wife would have to pay it, it went to court, they won! Eventually I got DLA at £75 a week, it was reviewed a year later and despite 2 suicide attempts they decided I was improving and reduced it to £43 a week.
There are people who have never had a job since leaving school and they were getting more money than me, one lad was moaning about not having enough cash, there was him, his wife and one child, they were getting rent paid, council tax paid, free prescriptions, free eyecare, plus loads of other stuff and £300 a week in dole money! I asked him why he didn't work and he said taking all his benefits into account they were getting nearly £500 a week coming into the house, he was unskilled so where was he going to get a job earning that much? Fair comment I suppose.
As for taxes, I agree that a lot of it is done by stealth, things don't go up in budgets, but other things are taxed in a sneaky way, they give you an extra £5 in the budget but take a tenner off you in other ways.
Allowing foreign companies to own our utilities was wrong, the profits made go abroad, uncontrolled immigration has caused problems, reducing wages and causing resentment, plus it gives the idle an excuse not to work, "there's no job's because the migrants have taken them" is a common quote. Well instead of paying these people large amounts to stay on the dole, how about this one? Get rid of all the immigrants who do unskilled work, that will create a load of jobs, then the lazy people who have no skills and no desire to work will have 2 options, work or starve, the excuse of "there are no jobs" will no longer hold water. Tbh I'm sick to death of people saying to me, "it's alright for you, you've got a trade", yes I have, but I wasn't born an electrician, I went to college, I learned and worked hard, didn't we all? yet some of these people use the lack of skills as an excuse not to work, skills need to be learned and that requires you to put in some effort.
I don't think any party has the answer to the current problems, but one thing is for certain, something needs doing and I think it's time that whoever gets in should put British people first, stop giving foreign aid to countries that quite often don't need it for a start! I'm all for helping others, but how can we send millions of pounds abroad when we have people sleeping on the streets and using food banks? Make foreign owned firms pay the correct amount of tax on money earned here, stop foreign firms owning utilities, and stop immigration unless the person has skills we need,
One other thing, there was talk of making not voting a criminal offence, they were concerned that not a lot of people were voting, well how about another box on the ballot paper? Vote non of the above, how many people don't vote because they don't like the politics of any of the parties? A "vote none of the above " box would no doubt prove interesting.
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