So is this the Answer to all our problems?
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
I did immediately think that it’s a storage heater, how are they transferring black to electricity, or are they just proposing to using it for heating?
I saw that also, it seems to be supplying heat to a swimming pool, and the fella was standing next to a heap of black pipes that looked interesting, I was going to say they maybe runningwater through the pipes, but he also mentioned 500 degC and how water boils at 100 degC. I'm guessing there's a trade secret or two in that battery.
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I thought they mentioned a district heating system as well, so that will be hot water or steam then?
It is just a very big storage heater. The claim of storing it's heat for months is interesting, but as usual no technical details, what sort and how much insulation encases it and what is the standing heat loss from it.
Yes it will keep the district heating and pool warm and be able to just charge up when there is surplus renewable energy, but the claim it can store heat for months is suspicious.
It is just a very big storage heater. The claim of storing it's heat for months is interesting, but as usual no technical details, what sort and how much insulation encases it and what is the standing heat loss from it.
Yes it will keep the district heating and pool warm and be able to just charge up when there is surplus renewable energy, but the claim it can store heat for months is suspicious.
King Arthur
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Water only boils at 100C at sea level pressure of course. It's relatively easy to increase the boiling point by increasing the pressure so I doubt that would be the 'trade secret' if there is one.
Interesting idea though and could certainly reduce the heating demands of UK homes by 'shifting' heat from the day to the night. Not much help for the massive energy demand of Aircon in hotter climes though.
the secrets will be in the construction and control side of it. As this battery was adjacent to a swimming pool, I suspect they are using steam to heat water somehow, the puzzle is what happens when the temperature of the sand decreases to say 50 C, still hot enough to heat water, but not make steam.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
You do what you do with most batteries these days, Recharge it!
Well yeah, I was contemplating how low a temperature it will work at, as it can be heated to 500 C. Apparently it will also stay hot for months.
Berserkerboy
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Presumably it is used in the same way that geothermal energy is harnessed in countries like Iceland. The unit they have installed is a test unit. I imagine it is scaleable. Looks like a good cheap way of balancing the grid and storing excess renewable power,..., if we ever get to that point.
And it's not using rare elements like Lithium, which has it's own environmental problems.Presumably it is used in the same way that geothermal energy is harnessed in countries like Iceland. The unit they have installed is a test unit. I imagine it is scaleable. Looks like a good cheap way of balancing the grid and storing excess renewable power,..., if we ever get to that point.
King Arthur
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Indeed. There's no shortage of sand! Similar issue as the previously mentioned sodium ion battery - an abundant resource with little environmental impact. Ok, maybe less efficient but engineering is all about balancing inevitable trade-offs. Perhaps we've not yet found the best long-term-sustainable balance?
Berserkerboy
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When I was at school in the 80's I remember a tv program talking about the hydrogen future.
Electrolysis is like PV fifteen years ago: a promising technology that is still thought to be more expensive than the fossil fuel alternatives. But, as with PV, it is on a steeply declining cost curve. The manufacture of hydrogen from water is a central part of the next phase of the energy transition.
All sorts of fuels can be made from hydrogen and CO2.
This is what annoys me most with 'light touch government ' and leaving it all to private industry. Sometimes a few £million to pure research can yield great dividends for the country. We saw that with the COVID vaccine development, just a couple of £millions and we had a ground breaking vaccine.
BorisJ
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The trouble the same amount of energy is required to manufacture it from water as as it gives off when used.
Berserkerboy
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In actual fact, it's more like 80% efficient though efforts continue to improve this figure. Only to be used when there is excess generation.
This is one of my arguments in favour of hydrogen, rather than using batteries to store surplus energy, generate hydrogen. It's not like we don't have resources like wind to do that. I've also seen a micro hydrogen system designed for houses to replace gas boilers. I'll see if I can find a link.
King Arthur
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Why is this a problem? The same is true of electricity. Neither are SOURCES of energy, they are ways of distributing and utilising energy. The primary energy source is the sun (same as fossil fuels actually).
Berserkerboy
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It's always been about cost. Fossil fuels have been cheap, ignoring their environmental impact, until now.
I wonder how the costs of Swansea/Cardiff bay lagoons stack up now. These projects would create good baseload production as they are not dependent on sun and wind. Moon energy!
The problem is that all the materials such as steel and concrete have gone up in cost.
The government has been too indecisive as usual and only appear interested in short-term fixes.
I wonder how the costs of Swansea/Cardiff bay lagoons stack up now. These projects would create good baseload production as they are not dependent on sun and wind. Moon energy!
The problem is that all the materials such as steel and concrete have gone up in cost.
The government has been too indecisive as usual and only appear interested in short-term fixes.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
The here and now fixes are vote winners for them, long term are for othersIt's always been about cost. Fossil fuels have been cheap, ignoring their environmental impact, until now.
I wonder how the costs of Swansea/Cardiff bay lagoons stack up now. These projects would create good baseload production as they are not dependent on sun and wind. Moon energy!
The problem is that all the materials such as steel and concrete have gone up in cost.
The government has been too indecisive as usual and only appear interested in short-term fixes.
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