Mike.J
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I think the word Evangelical comes to mind.
It had to happen!
- Thread starter Sharpend
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If you look at carbon per head of population, you get a very different picture. The likes of India is a much lower carbon footprint than ours. And if we all lived like the Yanks, we would need 3 planets.. This is one of the major arguments between developing countries and the Western world, why should they live in poverty when we can't get our own house in order?
One of my major quibbles with our own government is why they haven't insisted on carbon/ environmental standards for imported goods. If they had many years ago we might still have some industry left. Shipping is also a major carbon releasing industry.
Saudi Arabia is not idle though, they announced a few weeks ago that they have plans to plant 50 billion trees across the middle east, they have also been buying solar panel manufacturers and building large solar farms.
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Part of the greenwash. "it's not us wots polluting the planet" If we still had heavy industry we would have to clean it up.
no its not. climate change has been happening for thousands of years, well before burning of fossil fuels
burning fossil fuels is not helping the environment and definately making things worse and accelerating climate change, but claiming climate change is a direct result of burning fossil fuels is simply wrong
We did, then shipped out our industry to third world countries. Do you not remember acid rain, the excitement around salmon returning to the river Thames, or the smog at the Chinese Olympics?
The current climate change is so clearly man made what else could it be? This is exactly the sort of misinformation ExxonMobil has been promoting for decades.
Gordon Brown used to refer to it as importing deflation
Don't remember that one, but we have certainly got used to cheap stuff from abroad.
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Yes. This is what annoys me. All we hear is how bad and how much we have to do. Those of us that have already done a lot personally in the right direction get pi$$ed off being treated like children.
A bit of "we have made very good progress so far but we must still do more" would do a LOT more to motivate people I am sure.
I think you may be right about that, but as you can see from some of the posts on here, the smear campaign from Exxon is still working well. For the more zealous environmental lobby, they can't understand why people don't get how urgent and immediate the problem is, hence they have taken to gluing themselves to roads. Given how quickly we solved the ozone hole problem, it's been incredibly disheartening how the climate change deniers have made the problem so much worse. Personally I doubt we will limit warming to 2degC. Sounds so insignificant doesn't it, but the consequences for mankind and the planet are so serious, and yet our wonderful government still dithers.
Personally, I've almost given up. I might as well just burn shit, enjoy life and say firk it, I told you so in another decade or two. I'm of the opinion only when a complete disaster hits the western world will the politics catch up
How do we know that Binky? How do we know it's not a 2000 year cycle, not so long back we had an ice age. We have only kept weather records for about 130 years. I totally accept that man has contributed to it, I don't believe that the whole effect is man made.
Just look at the carbon charts and Google some of the additional science like ice cores. Currently we should be heading for a minor ice age, but it seems something has gone seriously wrong
. Do some serious reading then come back to me on that comment. Actually just do a quick scan at the likes of information from people such as NASA or Wikipedia. If you Google climate change you won't find much from the Exxon Mobil promoted guff these days, because overwhelming levels of evidence has discerdited the bs they have used to smear the science and promote their misinformation. ExxonMobil used the same tactics as the tobacco industry to discredit the fact their products cuase lung cancer. Sad fact is to they have put us back 40 years.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Why don’t we face the truth?
The world is not ours and we do not control it, it is a living entity thus it changes all by its self. If it was not a living entity then it would look like all the other planets - lifeless and I am not referring to human occupancy.
The population has grown considerably in the last 100 years, therefore all consumption has increased significantly.
Human behaviour has changed dramatically in the 100 years. How much CO2 is emitted from the thousands of internet servers around the world, or in the electricity produced to keep them running 24/7?
How much more air travel, train travel sea travel has there been over the last 100 years?
So to look at one thing such as burning fossil fuels is imo a red herring, along with expecting any government to give anything more substantiative than lip service to climate change.
How many of the stop oil protesters made it to the middle of the M25 without the use of a vehicle- probably a petrol or diesel ? They are no more than hypocrites.
So if you want to be serious about the planet then stop producing more people, don’t use anything remotely modern, live a basic existence without the need to travel more than a mile or 2 from where you live.
Any takers? Thought not.
So quit fooling yourself with smoke and mirrors, remember the biggest lie is the one you tell yourself.
Neither you or I can stop or will stop any government from doing what they think is right, and how many actually do what is right?
The world is not ours and we do not control it, it is a living entity thus it changes all by its self. If it was not a living entity then it would look like all the other planets - lifeless and I am not referring to human occupancy.
The population has grown considerably in the last 100 years, therefore all consumption has increased significantly.
Human behaviour has changed dramatically in the 100 years. How much CO2 is emitted from the thousands of internet servers around the world, or in the electricity produced to keep them running 24/7?
How much more air travel, train travel sea travel has there been over the last 100 years?
So to look at one thing such as burning fossil fuels is imo a red herring, along with expecting any government to give anything more substantiative than lip service to climate change.
How many of the stop oil protesters made it to the middle of the M25 without the use of a vehicle- probably a petrol or diesel ? They are no more than hypocrites.
So if you want to be serious about the planet then stop producing more people, don’t use anything remotely modern, live a basic existence without the need to travel more than a mile or 2 from where you live.
Any takers? Thought not.
So quit fooling yourself with smoke and mirrors, remember the biggest lie is the one you tell yourself.
Neither you or I can stop or will stop any government from doing what they think is right, and how many actually do what is right?
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I Got it ,
Let's build a wall and jkeep the fake news and sleepy politicians at bay
Let's build a wall and jkeep the fake news and sleepy politicians at bay
I understand that aspect, I don't deny that climate change is happening I only doubt the contribution man has made to it and therefore man's ability to halt it. When I look at the efforts made in countries like ours and then work in the USA where I see everyone is driving around in V8's and V6's it makes a mockery of our efforts. China continues with it's coal fired power stations as in USA, all of them producing cheap electricity putting UK and the rest of the world at a financial disadvantage.Just look at the carbon charts and Google some of the additional science like ice cores. Currently we should be heading for a minor ice age, but it seems something has gone seriously wrong
One thing for sure, it's unlikely that a major change will be made in my lifetime.
BorisJ
Well-known member
Cars have had fuel gauges as long as I can remember. Why should a fancy on board computer make any difference?
I find it so ironic the protesters are using a product to stick themselves to a surface that is transported in a container that is prob produced by the company's they are objecting too. Then there's the clothes they wear and the phones they use. The transport to ferry them to protests. Ect ect ect.
I remember a protest in the 80s where they were building camps near to electric/oil sites as protest for the usage. Ironically they were building the camp using plastic sheets as shelter. Ow the irony
I remember a protest in the 80s where they were building camps near to electric/oil sites as protest for the usage. Ironically they were building the camp using plastic sheets as shelter. Ow the irony
PaulieN
Well-known member
It's the elephant in the room isn't it? No one dares to mention this because the whole capitalist world is built on the basis of an inflationary model of consumption, the economy, social services, healthcare, pensions. The whole present world system as we know it comes crashing down with a reducing world population. Too many wealthy vested interests will be ended and there would be a collapse of society as we know it, for a period of time.
I'm personally all for a managed reduction to about 4 billion over the next 40 years, but try suggesting that at any dinner party discussion and you'll get treated like a Nazi suggesting eugenics or something!
PaulieN
Well-known member
My '54 VW actually didn't (originally, I fitted a period accessory kit) you had to open the bonnet, take off the petrol tank cap and stick a wooden rule down to the bottom to see how much petrol was left!! Preferably without your '50's, good for your nerves fag, still hanging out of your mouth.
this is one of the classic smoke screen arguments from Exxon sponsored 'scientists'. There's an awful lot of science behind this that I'm really not going to attempt to type out here, but going back to my slighty feeble home heating anaology, if you keep burning lots of fuel, the house gets warmer. What else could it do. 1degC in the atmosphere is equivalent to all the energy being generated around the world - that's why the weather patterns are larger and more extreme, lots of extra energy. Article below is quite good
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2017/04/04/how-we-know-climate-change-is-not-natural/
When I look at the efforts made in countries like ours and then work in the USA where I see everyone is driving around in V8's and V6's it makes a mockery of our efforts. China continues with it's coal fired power stations as in USA, all of them producing cheap electricity putting UK and the rest of the world at a financial disadvantage.
this is one of the most disheartening things about the current picture, but, if our governments had taken more notice sooner, we wouldn't be so in the shit with energy now. We are lucky in that we have very good wind resources, and on-shore wind is the cheapest form of energy production. The great thing about most renewable energy sources are that they are relatively easy, quick, and cheap to build. We could easily be a net exporter of energy to Europe and earn some good money for the UK economy, as well as giving our own businesses a cost advantage - a bit like Iceland, the home of Aluminium smelting because of cheap thermal energy. I also believe you can't lecture the likes of China without sorting your own house out.
This also brings me back to an earlier point about politics, with the likes of Edwina Curry making comments about 'why would we make things ourselves if it's cheaper from abroad', well the environmentalists have long argued that purchase price is not the whole picture. We should be applying taxation to recognise disposal costs and CO2 emmissions, because the true cost of a product is not just what it takes to make it, but it's impact on the planet as well. But politicians wouldn't want to put prices up would they. Platics is a classic, it's now so widely spread through the entire planet on land and sea the cost of cleaning it up is astronomical / basically impossible
there are varying ideas of what 1.5 or 2degC means for the planet, but this seems a resonable version ie not an extremist viewpoint. What is worrying is the permafrost is starting to melt in polar regions, worrying because it releases shed loads of methane, 58 times worse than CO2. Go too far and we risk a runaway heating of the planet that will be out of our control. Currently I'm trying tp persuade the wife to move somewhere colder, like Iceland
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2865/a-degree-of-concern-why-global-temperatures-matter/
