It had to happen!

[Kot]

If you look at carbon per head of population, you get a very different picture. The likes of India is a much lower carbon footprint than ours. And if we all lived like the Yanks, we would need 3 planets.. This is one of the major arguments between developing countries and the Western world, why should they live in poverty when we can't get our own house in order?

One of my major quibbles with our own government is why they haven't insisted on carbon/ environmental standards for imported goods. If they had many years ago we might still have some industry left. Shipping is also a major carbon releasing industry.

Saudi Arabia is not idle though, they announced a few weeks ago that they have plans to plant 50 billion trees across the middle east, they have also been buying solar panel manufacturers and building large solar farms.

Having worked in India and seen first hand the visible pollution at their coal plants, their use of very old 2 stroke bike engines and phutphut taxis etc etc I disagree lol.igh usage of electricity all fed by fossil fuels mainly coal.
https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news...-2022-global-emissions-highest-in-india-85928

 

[binky]

Having worked in India and seen first hand the visible pollution at their coal plants, their use of very old 2 stroke bike engines and phutphut taxis etc etc I disagree lol.igh usage of electricity all fed by fossil fuels mainly coal.
https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news...-2022-global-emissions-highest-in-india-85928

and not forgetting 'who kills more Indians that General Custer - Union Carbide'.

India can build nuclear weapons, send satellites into space, but can't clean up it's own environment. But that doesn't change their Carbon footprint per head, coz half the population lives in utter poverty and things like leccy are nowhere to be seen. Given that the glaciers in the Himalayas are all melting, meaning India will run out of water in summer for little things like the river Ganges, you would think they might take the matter more seriously.

 

[Sparksfly]

Just a thought...
Is it not the western world who purchase many products made in China, India et all. Indirectly fueling global warming. Along with objects of western designed obsolescence and stuff we dont really need.
I mean I am no saint.... I have at least 15 underpants, 40+ pairs of socks, 10 hats, a skirt (for the weekend). 6x work trousers, some cut into shorts...more shorts
....fashion has a lot to answer for.

As for the emissions ICE and EV debate... I don't hear anyone highlighting the dangerous particulate matter wafting around our airspace from brake and tyre dust no matter how green your car or milk float is supposed to be. ..

...now I must depart...... and catch up with the real news on Frankie Boyles New world order...who will make sense of it all.

 

[binky]

Just a thought...
Is it not the western world who purchase many products made in China, India et all. Indirectly fueling global warming. Along with objects of western designed obsolescence and stuff we dont really need.
I mean I am no saint.... I have at least 15 underpants, 40+ pairs of socks, 10 hats, a skirt (for the weekend). 6x work trousers, some cut into shorts...more shorts
....fashion has a lot to answer for.

As for the emissions ICE and EV debate... I don't hear anyone highlighting the dangerous particulate matter wafting around our airspace from brake and tyre dust no matter how green your car or milk float is supposed to be. ..

...now I must depart...... and catch up with the real news on Frankie Boyles New world order...who will make sense of it all.

Our consumerism has been mentioned many times and fashion is dreadful for the planet, especially cotton production.

EV mostly use the motors to brake which regenerates charge into the batteries. Particulate emmisions from ICE, especially diesel kills 4000 people a year in London - makes terrorists look like amateurs.

 

[Joules]

So road tax is seemingly nothing to do with emissions??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321

La Fondation d’entreprise TotalEnergies website captures the quintessential reason why as individual’s planet wide we have such difficulty with reducing our carbon foot print and it’s all to do with the specific energy of fossil fuels.

The website explains.

“The amount of energy stored in an object, expressed in watt-hours per kilogram (1 Wh/kg = 3.6 kJ/kg). For example, the energy density of a standard rechargeable battery ranges from 70 to 100 Wh/kg. This rises to 150 to 200 Wh/kg for a lithium-ion battery and up to 1,500 Wh/kg for some lithium or manganese batteries. This is far lower than the energy density of a liquid fuel, which is around 10,000 Wh/kg.”

The issue is a need for speed as we are the fastest humans that have ever lived. Given a need to slow down and According to the Institute of Physics we have a choice of animal power to choose from with the horse topping the list and humans coming in last. Given a choice people will invariably fill their car with petrol/diesel at 10,000 Wh/kg rather than have a horse pull it.

 

[johnb2713]

“The amount of energy stored in an object, expressed in watt-hours per kilogram (1 Wh/kg = 3.6 kJ/kg). For example, the energy density of a standard rechargeable battery ranges from 70 to 100 Wh/kg. This rises to 150 to 200 Wh/kg for a lithium-ion battery and up to 1,500 Wh/kg for some lithium or manganese batteries. This is far lower than the energy density of a liquid fuel, which is around 10,000 Wh/kg.”

The problem with these sorts of analysis is they talk about the weight of the fuel tank / storage system when looking at batteries 'v' just fuel for liquid fossil fuels. Now if they looked correctly at the weight of the stored electrons a very different picture would emerge and yes, a charged battery is heavier than a discharged one before you ask! Approx 25,000 MWh to change weight by 1 gram.

 

[binky]

Energy density is also slightly misleading in that ICEs waste 40% of the energy as heat, and then add mechanical inefficiency to that of all the moving parts within the engine.

 

[johnb2713]

Energy density is also slightly misleading in that ICEs waste 40% of the energy as heat, and then add mechanical inefficiency to that of all the moving parts within the engine.

ICE is between 22% and 30% efficient unless used in a CHP plant when the waste heat is used.

 

[Joules]

The problem with these sorts of analysis is they talk about the weight of the fuel tank / storage system when looking at batteries 'v' just fuel for liquid fossil fuels. Now if they looked correctly at the weight of the stored electrons a very different picture would emerge and yes, a charged battery is heavier than a discharged one before you ask! Approx 25,000 MWh to change weight by 1 gram.

You make an interesting point.

You reach a certain age and need to slow down. The energy crisis is upon us so should I buy a horse with a view to it pulling my car along or should I buy a sedan chair or better still a rickshaw.

Decisions, decisions, getting rid of the car would be good thing but is it better to employ four self-employed people on a zero-hour contract or buy the Rick-Shaw and employ one person. Can I really afford to keep a horse?

This is the sort of lateral thinking the world needs.

 

[binky]

You make an interesting point.

You reach a certain age and need to slow down. The energy crisis is upon us so should I buy a horse with a view to it pulling my car along or should I buy a sedan chair or better still a rickshaw.

Decisions, decisions, getting rid of the car would be good thing but is it better to employ four self-employed people on a zero-hour contract or buy the Rick-Shaw and employ one person. Can I really afford to keep a horse?

This is the sort of lateral thinking the world needs.

Battery assisted tricycle, saw one the other day.

 

[Geoff1946]

Battery assisted tricycle, saw one the other day.

Mobility scooter.

 

[Murdoch]

E scooter. No tax, no insurance, no road rules to obey

 

[Kot]

La Fondation d’entreprise TotalEnergies website captures the quintessential reason why as individual’s planet wide we have such difficulty with reducing our carbon foot print and it’s all to do with the specific energy of fossil fuels.

The website explains.

“The amount of energy stored in an object, expressed in watt-hours per kilogram (1 Wh/kg = 3.6 kJ/kg). For example, the energy density of a standard rechargeable battery ranges from 70 to 100 Wh/kg. This rises to 150 to 200 Wh/kg for a lithium-ion battery and up to 1,500 Wh/kg for some lithium or manganese batteries. This is far lower than the energy density of a liquid fuel, which is around 10,000 Wh/kg.”

The issue is a need for speed as we are the fastest humans that have ever lived. Given a need to slow down and According to the Institute of Physics we have a choice of animal power to choose from with the horse topping the list and humans coming in last. Given a choice people will invariably fill their car with petrol/diesel at 10,000 Wh/kg rather than have a horse pull it.

But just think of the methane that the horse produces lol methane is not good lol

 

[Sharpend]

E scooter. No tax, no insurance, no road rules to obey

Yet! Subject to change.

 

[Joules]

Battery assisted tricycle, saw one the other day.

Mobility scooter.

E scooter. No tax, no insurance, no road rules to obey

Yet! Subject to change.

Lol. No fossil fuels. No just-in-time inventory control,no lorries only shanks' pony and horses, no on tap hot water and how are you going to press all of that steel into the required shape?

 

[binky]

Lol. No fossil fuels. No just-in-time inventory control,no lorries only shanks' pony and horses, no on tap hot water and how are you going to press all of that steel into the required shape?

Fertiliser plants next to steel works fed from spare hydrogen released from making fertiliser.

If you think about the materials to make one car, how many ebikes or scooters could you make, plus far less plastics as you don't have dashboards or seat coverings, etc etc. The future is small!

 

[Joules]

The future is small!

But well worth the living. Fertilizer, plants, you may just have solved the global food crisis.