Sparky Business Advice

[Sidewinder]

i know exactly what you mean but i would rather give the option rather not give the option to do house work if i can, money is money and all that. also on the panel building there would be no standards has such because i build them them now for the odd cash job and so long has the parts used are CE marked etc then the panel will conform.

thanks

Wrong, wrong, wrong, on SO many counts it could end you up in prison.

Trust me, I do CE marking consultancy etc.

That is the attitude that is tantamount to the 5WW who does not really understand house bashing, when crossed over to the machine controls world.

You are so wrong it is unbelievable that you can actually believe that rubbish.

Sorry, but these are the facts.

 

[Andy™]

 i asked for advice.

and you got advice. just it wasnt the 'advice' you wanted because no-one agreed with you

 

[Sidewinder]

not going to argue but i have been doing it for over 20 years

and unless your are selling your control panel to the good old USA where it has to be sent to the UL center to be tested there is no uk legislation for that other than Low Voltage Switchgear and Controlgear Assemblies must comply with  BS EN 60439 and all the gear manufactured will conform to that standard and CE tested then all standards are in fact intact. now if you are designing a control panel that requires safety relays/stop/guards etc then the system must comply with the current EN ISO 13849-1.

sorry to harp on....

thanks for that much appreciated. i will do some research and maybe drop ELECSA a email. i was expecting a cost for doing it but like i said i would give the option to be able to do domestic work rather than not but i am going to concentrated on industrial work. again thanks.

So wrong again, where have you got this nonsense from?

Anything that is designed and built, and thus sold into the EU for around 20 years now must conform to the New Approach Directives, LVD, EMCD, MD etc.

These have type A, B & C standards.

You REALLY NEED to do your homework to ensure that you are not going to end up in prison as the designer & builder of the control system if it kills someone.

This is serious stuff, that must not be messed with, it is people with this attitude that are mucking up the industry and destroying it.

YOU MUST understand what is required in this market, and your posts to date, show that you patently do not.

Do you have ANY grasp of 60204-1?

 

[steptoe]

Im presently trying to work with a friend of mine who is wanting to make a 'new' type of hotplate,

the CE thing shocked him when I tried with my basic grasp of how he had to go about it,

he is now looking to outsource his finished product to someone that can 'certify' it

 

[Sidewinder]

He can certify it "himself", there is only a few scenarios that require 3rd party certification, machines under Annexe 4 for example.

Else the manufacturer can self certify, but, it they do it wrong then the ball is firmly in their court, hence why I get work from this to advise them what they must do and don't need to do etc.

 

[steptoe]

He can certify it "himself", there is only a few scenarios that require 3rd party certification, machines under Annexe 4 for example.

Else the manufacturer can self certify, but, it they do it wrong then the ball is firmly in their court, hence why I get work from this to advise them what they must do and don't need to do etc.

currently getting a thermostat with the required duty cycle is the biggest problem it seems,

if, and its if, I get to elex i'll speak to you about it maybe.

 

[Sidewinder]

That is not a CE issue Steps, but, yes if you get to Cov, then I will be more than glad to discuss this.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

first all go easy on me

been qualified for quite a few years now - city & guilds 236 and my 17th edition has well has various qualifications in electronics and experienced in PLC automation and gas safe registered currently working has a commissioning engineer for a company doing robotic spraying systems.

now i am seriously thinking of leaving the company next year and set up on my own doing electrical industrial/domestic installation work and various electrical engineering work i.e automation and panel building.

so the question is what "tickets" do i need to work in peoples houses under part p? do i need inspection & testing and join one of the big clubs? or can i just do a part P course and join a club?

sorry if this has been asked a million times before but i could do with some proper advice on this so i can work out a plan of action and cost etc etc

thanks in advance

p.s

i was a member here some time ago but alas i have both forget my username and password so i had to get in via facefook!!!

ooo it remembered me 

Back to the original question for a minute...

1/ Approved electricians who can self certify work..

2/ Qualified electricians who cannot self certify work..

3/ DIY persons who cannot self certify work..

CAN ALL DO ELECTRICAL WORK IN DOMESTIC DWELLINGS...

the only differences are who they pay and how much they pay to test the work to obtain a building regs compliance certificate..

for any work within the scope of part P.

Approved Document P gives detail..

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/downloads

If you want to join an approved contractors scheme then it is no different from any other customer purchasing a product....

You are the customer...

browse the various sellers offering the product you are interested in..

e.g. links such as those given by Pewter earlier.

Compare prices & features within your budget..

Purchase the goods or services at your convenience...

All the various contractor schemes have web pages giving costs & qualifications needed to purchase one of their products...

and I am quite sure that that all have email and/or telephone help/support lines that you can call to answer any questions that you cannot see on the websites... 

It really is simple...

It's got to be cus I was bale to do it without needing to ask on any iinterweb forums how to do it!!!!!

Guinness

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

ffs i did not come on here for a load of abuse! i asked a simple question and got slated about something else!

thanks for the couple of posters who answered my question and for the the others well i have been doing this for over 20 years and built control panels and written PLC and SCADA programs for some pretty fecking big companies - jag land rover/GKN/Mclaren to name a few and i currently work for ABB Robotics. i wont becoming here again EVER

cheers lads........................... 

 

[Blue Duck]

Maybe to late but...

Stick around these guys are nice people really, just concerned that things are done correctly! sidewinder and canoeboy are in this stuff big time, know their onions and may get a bit defensive.

With your experience I'm not sure why you'd bother with bashing? Think napit did a scheme where you could do a few notifications a year at a reduced cost? At the end of the day it's the customers responsibility to have the work notified so you can leave that with them and not bother joining a scam, ehem I mean scheme.

 

[NozSpark]

TBH you have been given advice, over and above what you have asked for and IMHO the advice regarding your panel building is probably more important than any advice regarding going SE; just because you've been doing it for 20 years doesn't mean that you've been complying with the regulations, I suspect that for the most part you have been whilst being employed.

 

[ProDave]

ffs i did not come on here for a load of abuse! i asked a simple question and got slated about something else!

thanks for the couple of posters who answered my question and for the the others well i have been doing this for over 20 years and built control panels and written PLC and SCADA programs for some pretty fecking big companies - jag land rover/GKN/Mclaren to name a few and i currently work for ABB Robotics. i wont becoming here again EVER

cheers lads........................... 

Nobody has given you any abuse. You are the one that seems to be introducing abuse with mention of the F word?

Yes you may well have 20 years experience in the control systems industry. Nobody is doubting that you are quite capable of designing something that works and programming it. And doing that part of a machines design as one employee of a big company is fine, when someone else is taking care of the safety, compliance and certification of the machine.

You were talking about setting up on your own, designing and building control panels.  While you may have the knowledge to do the detailed design, you do not appear to be aware of the legal standards you have to adhere to and how you certify compliance with those standards. that's not a criticism. Someone else did all that in your previous employment so you didn't have to.  But as a one man band you jolly well do need to know it.

So you would have to have a very steep learning curve and buy some expensive standards documents. Because we used to supply machines all around the world, we had different standards depending on the market. We had a library containing many £000's worth of documents. Only one copy of each as they were so expensive but there for all the designers to refer to.  that's a lot of outlay for a one man band.

Then there was the liability insurance that the company held that would fight the case to protect the individual designers in the event of an injury or even fatality involving one of our machines.

And do you even know basic things like what colours you use for particular cables depending on their function?

I'm very sorry if the answer is not what you wanted to hear. But it's most certainly not abuse.

My advice is stick to what you know, and seek another job as an employee where you can continue doing what you know and what you are good at, and leave other aspects that are not your speciality to others.

 

[Sharpend]

Well for my tuppence, I do nothing associated with panel design and build, but that aside. I would say that the advice that you have been given here is very sound advice. The crucial element being that doing it for a company and doing it for yourself is the defining issue, which YOU need to be satisfied that YOU comply with all the standards that you perhaps have not been involved in before. For if the sword shalt fall it'll be your head that falls furthest.

So as Dave has so eloquently put it, carry on what your doing as an employee or get up to speed if your going alone.