SPD

[Traineeboy]

In regards to SPD in a house. If a customer doesn’t want to pay the extra we can’t force them. I had a spark tell me that under the 18th edition SPD must be fitted even in a house and if not a risk assessment should be carried out. 
 

however I thought that in a single house SPD does not have to be fitted nor does a risk assessment have to be done. 
 

I get it’s better to have one fitted but just want to be clear that at this stage in a single house unit an SPD or risk assessment Doesn’t have to be done. 
 

your thoughts chaps 

 

[Murdoch]

Only fitted 1 so far.

justifcation was that it was a remote property with an overhead supply

SPDs are not mandatory IMHO

 

[Traineeboy]

Only fitted 1 so far.

justifcation was that it was a remote property with an overhead supply

SPDs are not mandatory IMHO

Good to know. If it is in a house then am I right in thinking if you don’t install one then you don’t have to do a risk assessment ? 

 

[Murdoch]

Thing is that 534.1 and all the notes pertaining to SPDs have been written so badly and there are very few people actually understand them either

and then there is the rather important point that there are different types of SPD’s which also few people understand

i would be asking your “friend” where it says in BS 7671 you must install SPDs because I think this is really stated by the manufacturers of said products - who want them fitted for revenue and profit motives

just wait until AFDDs get more prominence 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

In regards to SPD in a house. If a customer doesn’t want to pay the extra we can’t force them. I had a spark tell me that under the 18th edition SPD must be fitted even in a house and if not a risk assessment should be carried out. 
 

however I thought that in a single house SPD does not have to be fitted nor does a risk assessment have to be done. 
 

I get it’s better to have one fitted but just want to be clear that at this stage in a single house unit an SPD or risk assessment Doesn’t have to be done. 
 

your thoughts chaps 

Good to know. If it is in a house then am I right in thinking if you don’t install one then you don’t have to do a risk assessment ? 

I am in agreement with your interpretation..

And so far I have not been advised, recommended or suggested, that I should have fitted any SPD's during any of my annual assessments since 18th ed....

Also IMHO, by providing a couple of paragraphs along with any formal quotation for a new CU,

you can easily cover yourself in writing by informing the customer of their options..

Thus it is the customer who assess the risk-vs-cost of SPD against any impact it would have upon their normal routines etc..

However since the increased "working from home" due to Covid etc.. there could be more of an argument that more "domestic-dwellings"

are becoming a bit more "Office-Like"..

As such they could have an increased quantity and value of equipment that could be vulnerable to surges etc..

and/or increased expense due to loss of earnings/productivity if such equipment is damaged..

(someone may be running an on-line business from their bedroom, which could be a lot more expensive than an SPD if it goes off-line for a few days!!!)

The bottom line is just tell the customer for £xxx.yy  extra cost they could have added protection for any and all of their tech-equipment...

Guinness

 

[NozSpark]

when I price a CU it's pretty much always a full RCBO board with SPD... I don't give the customer the option

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

when I price a CU it's pretty much always a full RCBO board with SPD... I don't give the customer the option

Sometimes it helps to give the optional costs..

so if they are getting quotes from other electricians, they can understand why some competitors may "appear" cheaper...!!

One of the added problems with the numerous social media and neighbourhood group type sites..

is that someone could flag you up as having expensive quotes compared to others providing a lower-grade solution..

If a customer has no concept of the options and costs, they may think that you are just trying to rip them off compared to the bod doing a £50 dual RCD no SPD board..

If any job has a "cheap" or "better"  solution...

I always try to give the customer the options and reality of what they will be getting, (or not), for their money!

  Guinness

 

[Fleeting]

when I price a CU it's pretty much always a full RCBO board with SPD... I don't give the customer the option

We don't do much domestic but this is our attitude when we do, there is no debate over it.

 

[binky]

Good to know. If it is in a house then am I right in thinking if you don’t install one then you don’t have to do a risk assessment ? 

I've not fitted any, and currently have no plans to do so any time soon.

As I understand it, you're suppossed to risk assess the property for lightning strikes, then decide is an SPD is worth fitting. Oddly enough, the 2 houses I've worked on that have suffered a strike, were both low lying and not on top of hills, ie places you wouldn't really expect to get struck.

 

[NozSpark]

Sometimes it helps to give the optional costs..

so if they are getting quotes from other electricians, they can understand why some competitors may "appear" cheaper...!!

One of the added problems with the numerous social media and neighbourhood group type sites..

is that someone could flag you up as having expensive quotes compared to others providing a lower-grade solution..

If a customer has no concept of the options and costs, they may think that you are just trying to rip them off compared to the bod doing a £50 dual RCD no SPD board..

If any job has a "cheap" or "better"  solution...

I always try to give the customer the options and reality of what they will be getting, (or not), for their money!

  Guinness

Oh no.... they know exactly what they're getting for the money.... I talk to them about the advantages of RCBO's and a "built in SPD",,,, however I don't give them an option.... I can't ever remember being asked if there's a cheaper way and most people book me in anyway

... I'm not the cheapest around anyway, I've never tried to be that person

 

[NozSpark]

I've not fitted any, and currently have no plans to do so any time soon.

As I understand it, you're suppossed to risk assess the property for lightning strikes, then decide is an SPD is worth fitting. Oddly enough, the 2 houses I've worked on that have suffered a strike, were both low lying and not on top of hills, ie places you wouldn't really expect to get struck.

TBH the risk assessment is a right ball ache anyway... how in hells name do I know, or go about finding out, the length of the LV cables to the sub and then the length of the HV cables from there..

the other risk assessment is wether the value of the installation is outweighed by the cost of a SPD.... now,,,, you can get a SPD for £30, so how is that not worth it?

 

[binky]

the other risk assessment is wether the value of the installation is outweighed by the cost of a SPD.... now,,,, you can get a SPD for £30, so how is that not worth it?

 Depends what it does. If it protects appliances from grid surges, then worth fitting. If it just protects from lighting strike surges, then it's cost is debateable. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Oh no.... they know exactly what they're getting for the money.... I talk to them about the advantages of RCBO's and a "built in SPD",,,, however I don't give them an option.... I can't ever remember being asked if there's a cheaper way and most people book me in anyway

... I'm not the cheapest around anyway, I've never tried to be that person

Vast swathes of customers haven't got a clue what an RCD does..

as for SPD's you may as well be talking a foreign language...

They think that the five-way multi-block adapter the bloke in Curry's sold them with the desktop PC or flat-screen TV did surge protection!!!

I'm not the cheapest either...

Nor do I aim to be...

But the reality is quite a few customers like to either source materials themselves, or google the price of things to compare with any quotes they get..

So they go walking around B&Q or browsing Screwfix and see all these "populated" CU's 

which "must be all acceptable and compliant with regs"..

Yet the majority are just Dual RCD.. No SPD's

https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/domestic-consumer-units/cat7230028#category=cat7230028&csupopulatedunpopulated=populated

And the bottom line at the end of the day is if the customer doesn't want to purchase what is an "optional item"...

It is better business sense to do the work they do want..

and keep a customer,

rather than losing them to a.n.other electrician who will fit a non-SPD CU...

Since commencing self employment back in Feb 1999..

the few properties I have encountered that have had any issues with lighting surges...

Have far more to worry about than a few items of electrical equipment being zapped!

Typically cables and walls damaged..  Roof sections of roof no longer existent..

Insurance covers the remedial work and SPD's would provide negligible help in such situations..

Whereas dual RCD's cause regular headaches for fault finding..

But full RCBO's can save hours of testing and thus significant amounts of money and time..

If a potential customer asks me if I have SPD's fitted at my own home I have to honestly answer NO..

If a potential customer asks me if I have a Dual RCD arrangement at my own home I also have to honestly answer NO..

They will make of that what they will in their evaluations around what that wish to purchase..

Guinness  

 

[Murdoch]

Vast swathes of customers haven't got a clue what an RCD does..

as for SPD's you may as well be talking a foreign language...

They think that the five-way multi-block adapter the bloke in Curry's sold them with the desktop PC or flat-screen TV did surge protection!!!

I'm not the cheapest either...

Nor do I aim to be...

But the reality is quite a few customers like to either source materials themselves, or google the price of things to compare with any quotes they get..

So they go walking around B&Q or browsing Screwfix and see all these "populated" CU's 

which "must be all acceptable and compliant with regs"..

Yet the majority are just Dual RCD.. No SPD's

https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/domestic-consumer-units/cat7230028#category=cat7230028&csupopulatedunpopulated=populated

And the bottom line at the end of the day is if the customer doesn't want to purchase what is an "optional item"...

It is better business sense to do the work they do want..

and keep a customer,

rather than losing them to a.n.other electrician who will fit a non-SPD CU...

Since commencing self employment back in Feb 1999..

the few properties I have encountered that have had any issues with lighting surges...

Have far more to worry about than a few items of electrical equipment being zapped!

Typically cables and walls damaged..  Roof sections of roof no longer existent..

Insurance covers the remedial work and SPD's would provide negligible help in such situations..

Whereas dual RCD's cause regular headaches for fault finding..

But full RCBO's can save hours of testing and thus significant amounts of money and time..

If a potential customer asks me if I have SPD's fitted at my own home I have to honestly answer NO..

If a potential customer asks me if I have a Dual RCD arrangement at my own home I also have to honestly answer NO..

They will make of that what they will in their evaluations around what that wish to purchase..

Guinness  

Has to be the best comment on the thread.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

When a customer Googles "Surge Protector" something like this Argos link will appear in the first page of results..

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9464348?

And when they read the description they find it will protection all the standard domestic vulnerable tech-equipment.

About this product

Surge protection for up to six devices keep your electronic devices protected from dangerous power surges and spikes with the Belkin 6-Outlet Surge Protection Strip.

Simply plug the surge protection strip into any AC wall outlet and connect up to six devices to keep them safe from power surges, lightning strikes, and AC contamination.

Ideal for laptops, DVD players, gaming consoles, speakers, and other medium-sized electronics, the Belkin Surge Protection Strip is made with high-quality circuitry and premium absorptive materials.

6 sockets with 2m extension cable.

13 amps - .

Surge protection with surge indicator.

£6 connected equipment warranty.

Power indicator.

Child-resistant sockets.

Suitable for indoor use.

Manufacturer's 1 year guarantee.

EAN: 745883643578.

Or..

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9473188?

with similar claims...

So why would they want to purchase a more expensive SPD..

and have to pay my labour to fit it in their CU...

when to their perception they can do it themselves for less than £20 and a purchase from Argos..  

:C

 

[Murdoch]

When a customer Googles "Surge Protector" something like this Argos link will appear in the first page of results..

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9464348?

And when they read the description they find it will protection all the standard domestic vulnerable tech-equipment.

Or..

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9473188?

with similar claims...

So why would they want to purchase a more expensive SPD..

and have to pay my labour to fit it in their CU...

when to their perception they can do it themselves for less than £20 and a purchase from Argos..  

:C

quite right

 but next week I’m fitting a Hager board with rcbos and SPD - main reason is to rid their house of trailing spd extension leads and we discussed at some length the solution and he’s happy to pay for the solution.