Spot Lights Not Working.

[THY]

Please could anyone offer advice?

I have a daisy chain spot light set-up in my kitchen. I have 6 spot lights (2 rows of 3).

5 lights no longer work. 1 light does work. I have replaced the 5 broken spot lights with new and working (having tested them) and correct type of transformers and halogen bulbs.

What is the problem? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Andy™]

most likely the MR16 holder

 

[kerching]

What Andy said...MR16 are the work of the devil and all his little beardy helpers. WOFT in my opinion AND they actually use more electric due to the transformer losses as well. The lampholders are just "poor"

Just a thought.....one works , five do not. Dodgy joint at first fitting perhaps.?

Bit of a Barrymore, but take the working lampholder and lamp from the working unit and try it at all the other five "none working points" assuming you have no test gear

Just saying

 

[ProDave]

Personally I would ditch the transformers and rewire the lot for GU10's then fit LED lamps into them.  the GU10 holder is FAR superior to the MR16 excuse.

 

[Sharpend]

Concur with Pro Dave.

 

[Evans Electric]

Me too .   Measure the diameter of the holes in the ceiling and buy some new  GU10  , Fire Rated  downlights to suit.............and as Dave says , fit  LED type lamps .  New ones generally between 65mm ........ 80mm .        You can usually hook the transformers out of the ceiling  , disconnect all the 12 volt stuff ,  throw away , and connect new mains downlights .   

I issue our standard warning to DIYers .........  SWITCH OFF THE POWER !!!!!!    Not just at the light switch .

You existing ones have always been troublesome ..... as Kerch says ...the work of the devil... crap lampholders , lamps developing loads of heat ,  modern transformers  always crapping out .      

 

[ProDave]

You don't always need to change the fittings, just the lamp bases.

 

[parker27]

I assume that you are not Part P qualified, doing this work yourself, you are invalidating your house insurance, if your work lead to some sort of accident, your insurance company would be able to tell that your work is an 'addition' or 'alteration' and would ask for your minor works certificate, which you would not be able to provide as you have done the work yourself, they would not pay out.

Employ an electrician to sign off a minor works certificate, if they are prepared to sign off someone elses work - which I would not do!

 

[Andy™]

BS. DIY work does not invalidate your insurance. and the work may not even be notifiable anyway, so part P is completely irrelevant

and even if he is a DIYer, he can still write out a MWC

and finally, part p is a building regulation, not a qualification (wonder if you have been sold one of these courses...?)

 

[roys]

As Andy said, parker27 you are wrong.

Also far as I know a householder can even do his own gas work if he is 'competent' to do so, and that means he does not need to be Gas Safe registered.  I stand to be corrected on this as I am not 100% sure on that.

 

[Sharpend]

I assume that you are not Part P qualified, doing this work yourself, you are invalidating your house insurance, if your work lead to some sort of accident, your insurance company would be able to tell that your work is an 'addition' or 'alteration' and would ask for your minor works certificate, which you would not be able to provide as you have done the work yourself, they would not pay out.

Employ an electrician to sign off a minor works certificate, if they are prepared to sign off someone elses work - which I would not do!

Well if that was to happen then the DIY sheds would go bust tomorrow! Imagine no structural alterations, no electrics, no gas, no plumbing, that'd leave them as garden centres :slap

Parker please if you are to advise make sure it's correct as this is an open forum. Unless you have in writing from an insurance authoritive body that what you speak is correct?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Please could anyone offer advice? I have a daisy chain spot light set-up in my kitchen. I have 6 spot lights (2 rows of 3). 5 lights no longer work. 1 light does work. I have replaced the 5 broken spot lights with new and working (having tested them) and correct type of transformers and halogen bulbs. What is the problem? Any help would be much appreciated.

I assume that you are not Part P qualified, doing this work yourself, you are invalidating your house insurance, if your work lead to some sort of accident, your insurance company would be able to tell that your work is an 'addition' or 'alteration' and would ask for your minor works certificate, which you would not be able to provide as you have done the work yourself, they would not pay out.

Employ an electrician to sign off a minor works certificate, if they are prepared to sign off someone elses work - which I would not do!

So where exactly does the OP state that they are doing new notifiable electrical work....? 

Lets consider the evidence...

1/ the OP states location as London..  In England kitchens are no longer a notifiable location so no problems there.. 

2/ the OP makes no reference to installing any new circuits or fuseboxes..  so no problems there..

3/ the OP inplies that the lights are exsisting and some have now failed...  Like for like replacements have no bearing on part P notifiable work, so no problems there..

4/  DIY electrical work is permissable within this country and has no compulsary requirement for the employment of any skilled tradespersons at all..  so no problems there...

The only point you got right was saying that the OP is not qualified as a building regualtion... (he's probably not  BS1363 qualified either when using 13A plugs!)

THY:..  carry on as per the guidance of the other posters do not be distracted by Parker27's mis-information.

Guinness

 

[parker27]

I assume that you are not Part P qualified, doing this work yourself, you are invalidating your house insurance, if your work lead to some sort of accident, your insurance company would be able to tell that your work is an 'addition' or 'alteration' and would ask for your minor works certificate, which you would not be able to provide as you have done the work yourself, they would not pay out.

Employ an electrician to sign off a minor works certificate, if they are prepared to sign off someone elses work - which I would not do!

 

[parker27]

Andy

A MWC will be required for 'any alteration or addition' to an existing circuit, as THY admits to changing a transformer, a MWC will be required, even for a 'replacement or an accessor or luminaire' - please read NICEIC inspection and testing and certifcation 7th edition, ammendment 3 page 81 and 82.

As a DIYer, how can THY sign off a MWC. they are not an 'competent' person and any 'qualified supervisor' countersigning this work - well good luck to them.

roys

I would send you a link to an article about this but, as I have to have 10 posts before I post you links, have a search on the internet about reasons why insurance compaines do no pay out for electrical work.

You could also contact your insurance companies and ask them if they would pay out on household insurance due to an electrical fault carried out by a unregistered electrician?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Who cares what an NICEIC book may say (And i am  a fully enrolled member) Its what BS7671 states that i worry or not about.

Say you were to go to a job to change a 12v transformer for a MR16  downlight, The transformers are always class 2 so what are you going to put on the paperwork and what are you going to test, not the replaced part are you ?

My household insurance certainly does not say i cant do any type of diy.

A like for like replacement is not a alteration or addition.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Andy

A MWC will be required for 'any alteration or addition' to an existing circuit, as THY admits to changing a transformer, a MWC will be required, even for a 'replacement or an accessor or luminaire' - please read NICEIC inspection and testing and certifcation 7th edition, ammendment 3 page 81 and 82.

As a DIYer, how can THY sign off a MWC. they are not an 'competent' person and any 'qualified supervisor' countersigning this work - well good luck to them.

roys

I would send you a link to an article about this but, as I have to have 10 posts before I post you links, have a search on the internet about reasons why insurance compaines do no pay out for electrical work.

You could also contact your insurance companies and ask them if they would pay out on household insurance due to an electrical fault carried out by a unregistered electrician?

More absolute tosh....

:shakehead

Parker27 ..  forget the NIC books..  they are NOT legally enforcible. they are just guidance for good practice...

Just as the wiring regs themselves are...

if you are in any doubt have a read of regulation 114.1.   page 15   of  BS7671...   (thats the current yellow book page number)

Then you may understand how "NON-STATUTORY" the wiring regulations are...

THUS..

any DIY'er can quite legitimately do the work described by THY without any fear or worries of invalidating any MWC requirements and/or household insurance..

:C

 

[andyh86]

We jsut re-fitted the kitchen with GU10's and LED bulbs. Fantastic difference and the npower meter doesn't jump straight in the red anymore when we turn the kitchen lights on!

 

[Doc Hudson]

We just re-fitted the kitchen with GU10's and LED bulbs. Fantastic difference and the npower meter doesn't jump straight in the red anymore when we turn the kitchen lights on!

I would agree, as kitchen lights are in my opinion one of the rooms where lights are left on for long durations and with the average 50w halogen typically converted to around a 5w LED thats one tenth of the power consumption. or one months worth of halogen consumption would give ten months worth of LED consumption. Plus when your typical lifespan is 10,000+hrs compared to 2000hrs then any person not fitting LEDs in kitchen GU10 lamps is missing easy power saving opportunities.

Doc H.

 

[THY]

I have changed the 5 non-working halogen bulbs and replaced with working (I have tested them) like-for-like bulbs, working

like-for-like transformers and working like-for-like MR16 holders. I will look to changing to GU10 LEDS once I know what the problem is. Any advice? Thanks, THY

 

[kerching]

If they are "daisy chained" ie two cables at every light and one at the last one

And the first loght on the run is working?

It points to the fault being at the first light.....broken outgoing connection.....OR at the second light Broken incoming connection

Either way it is between 1 and 2 BUT i am not there so it is a bit of a guess