storage heater problem, no power at night to charge

[Greyhound]

Hello, new here  hope I have posted in the right forum. I have had storage heaters before but never this problem - they do not charge at night, there is no switch over to charge them up. I understand people have issues with them but I have had them for years before moving here.

The heaters have their own rcd board, and it seems like the supply does not switch on at night. I'm not an electrician but a concerned, new tenant without any central heating and  looking for advice.

The supplier has already changed our meter for a brand new one in case it was faulty. It is economy 7 and it says 'single phase watt hour, solid state digital' landis e150.

The storage heaters look like basic older models,  there is no indicator light to see if they are on, elements only and no convector. They have a switch on the wall that is on.

The meter does register use at night, the immersion heater is on another rcd board and connected to a timer so we have hot water.

An electrician employed by the landlord has been here twice, once to check we were using them correctly so he set them again..... and the second time to switch them over to the 'day board' to prove the wiring to the heaters worked and they actually switched on.

However they still do not charge overnight, he said we need to go back to the supplier again as it must be a meter issue, so what else could be the problem? There is no separate timer or contactor, I assume it is all built in to the meter, it just seems like there is no supply to the heater board, is this the responsibility of the supplier? The electrician said that he and the landlord 'were both covered' as there is no fault on their side of the fuse board, but we are still left with no heating  surely we can't have been unlucky enough to have two faulty meters - bit worried we'll have to employ an electrician ourselves to fix this otherwise before it gets cold.

I'm not sure how to attach photos of the setup...

Thanks in advance

 

[Blue Duck]

Wrong type of  meter?

 

[Murdoch]

Has the meter been changed and the E7 not been activated?

 

[Lurch]

I'd be inclined to agree with the latest diagnosis, i.e. supplier issue. If the off-peak board was connected to the 24H board and it worked then there isn't anything else you can do, the next thing upstream (and everything beyond that) is the suppliers responsibility. It is either a fuse or timer issue, either way get back onto your supplier.

 

[Greyhound]

hello and thanks for your replies  it's much appreciated

The supplier did say it was an economy 7 meter, and I can see thick cables going to each board,  it took a good couple of hours to fit and we have had night meter readings, so I assume the economy 7 tariff is activated, but will ask them again. It uses about 3kwh each night with the immersion heater and fridge freezer. 

The electrician said he couldn't comment on the meter as he can't work beyond the fusebox, as the supplier owns the meter. The meters I have seen before are much older, this is a digital one and there are separate tariffs on the display that you can toggle to get the readings.

 As far as the supplier said it should all be working, but the electrician also said the same, yet the puzzle remains of no storage heaters....

The electrician took the covers off and took readings of the heating elements to prove a supply, it seems that something between the meter and the night storage heater board is not working at night, as it would be off during the day 

Wiring to the heaters seems ok from the day or constant supply board, and supply to the main fuse board at least is working as we have power to everything else 24hrs, with night readings by ut the second storage heater board seems to be not switching over or not working.

 

[Greyhound]

Ps thanks Lurch, crossposted, will speak to our supplier again

 The  electrician disconnected  the off peak board and ran wires from each heater one at a time to the 24hr board if that is the same?

I don't think the board itself was tested as he said it was off, so hopefully that has covered the necessary tests as I'm a bit worried about any charges from our supplier as they have already changed the meter (we have only just moved in)

 

[ProDave]

Can you  post a picture of your meter(s) any time switches with them and how they connect to your consumer units. You will have to upload the pictures to an image hosting site and post a link to them.

 

[Lurch]

The  electrician disconnected  the off peak board and ran wires from each heater one at a time to the 24hr board if that is the same?

I don't think the board itself was tested as he said it was off, so hopefully that has covered the necessary tests as I'm a bit worried about any charges from our supplier

Right, well that has proved the wiring and the heaters. Not checked is the board itself (could be a dicky RCD/main switch).

I would have liked to have seen power fed into the main switch of the off-peak board to prove all wiring from the meter tails point of entry, just to 100% rule everything out.

Might be handy if you could get him to just temporarily fit a socket to the off peak board so you could maybe just plug something in at night and confirm there is no power?

 

[Greyhound]

Thanks for for your replies everyone  just managed to upload some photos, sorry about the size.... 

The meter and rcd boards are overhead, with a hatch that won't stay open  not very accessible without a ladder and a barge pole, so forgive the quality, but hope you can see the basic setup. 

The electrician has gone but I expect he will be back, so I could ask him to set up a socket to test the power, thanks for the suggestions

As far as my untrained eye can see there are just the boards, the meter and the fuse for the power supply in, the board on the right is the storage heaters

Someone taller can take better photos soon, it is hard to see where all the live and neutral cables go

 

[Lurch]

I would say the most likely culprit is probably the meter after seeing the pics. Sounds like it just isn't switching over to off peak.

 

[ProDave]

I concur with that.

That's one of the new type of meters that has the switch for the off peak built in, so it does look as though it's not turning on. Perhaps the meter is set for single rate?

 

[Greyhound]

Thank you for your help  I hope the supplier can come out over the next couple of days, the meter says it is reading the two tariffs but whether it is switching to the storage heater board as well could be the problem then  I hope it will be a quick fix and that we won't need another meter. 

The engineer did take a good few hours fitting it and had to photograph all the steps he took, so perhaps all the wiring is in place but it is one of the settings? I don't really want to bother the landlord if it is something the supplier can fix so will speak to them first and then update  feel a bit better about calling them now as we were worried about any fees

 

[Lurch]

The engineer did take a good few hours fitting it

Wow. I'd have expected it to take no more than half an hour, probably including stopping for a brew.

 

[Greyhound]

He said the same but I think it was one of those jobs that took much longer than expected, it did look like a lot of work

He said some of the cables in were old, and some too short so a lot needed replacing before getting the new meter in....I guess being an old house the meter is in a really inconvenient spot that made it more difficult, it took over 2hrs, but he did have to stop to document each step, before and after to prove what work they did as they are contracted out - he did have a lot of paperwork

 

[Murdoch]

If its a new meter ..................then I would suspect its not delivering the E7 power ............... moan politely at the supplier.

When exactly was the new meter fitted?

 

[Greyhound]

Thanks for replying. The meter was fitted last week, so will definitely call them tomorrow morning  

we hoped the new meter would fix the problem, but sadly not.

....after the weekend we called the electrician again, and he did some fault testing today and said it was still the new meter as well, so I am hoping the supplier will come out, as the E7 seems to be switching over to the 24hr board, but not to the night storage heater board, so I am hoping they will fix it.

 the immersion heater is on the 24hr board and has been the only thing on at night along with the fridge freezer  (as we turned everything else off at the wall to see how much power was being used at night) so there is a night meter reading, which didn't happen before the meter change.

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for replying. The meter was fitted last week, so will definitely call them tomorrow morning  

we hoped the new meter would fix the problem, but sadly not.

There's a back story here that you are not telling us?

Are you saying the storage heaters stopped working BEFORE the meter change and you hoped the meter change would fix the problem?

I'm now thinking faulty main switch in off peak CU. and you need a better electrician?

The only way this will be sorted is by a competent electrician being there at night or very early in the morning when the E7 should be on. (E10 is a lot easier to test properly as it has a mid day on period)

 

[Murdoch]

I like to fit a isolation switch with neon to immersion heaters which are on E7 meters - at least that way the customer can see if the E7 is working                   

 

[ProDave]

I like to fit a isolation switch with neon to immersion heaters - at least that way the customer can see if the E7 is working                   

Double edged sword.

I changed a burned out immersion heater last week. The customer clearly said "the light was on but the water is not getting hot"

So I changed the immersion and went home assuring him by the morning he would have a full tank of hot water (off peak immersion)

Next morning, phone call, no hot water, so I went back. Yes I know I should have checked the MCB in the off peak CU, and I would have, except he told me the light was on, but it can't have been.  Wasted half an hour and a 15 mile round trip because I made the mistake of believing the customer.

 

[Greyhound]

Hello, sorry I  thought I put it in my 1st post- sorry it was a bit long  :Blushing

the heaters were not working when we moved in  2 weeks ago, so we had to wait for the electrician, who said it was the meter, and then for it to be changed by the supplier, and then the electrician to visit again and say it was the still new meter too, sorry for any confusion, I was in a bit of a panic after the visit this morning